The Avalyn Digest Wed May 21, 1997 Volume 2 : Issue 10 There are 20 messages totalling 610 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Slowdive BBC Peel Session 2. ride dissapointment (3) 3. Ride 4. cd's needed 5. (no list content) TO ALL NEW YORKERS 6. FWD: ride's downhill run 7. News from Rachel! (3) 8. Rachel's rxn to piracy (6) 9. Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles (2) 10. rachel's article --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 05:41:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: chief@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Slowdive BBC Peel Session On Thu, 8 May 1997, ALTONBARNS@aol.com wrote about: Slowdive BBC Peel Session > One way of releasing some new slowdive material would be if as many of us as > possible wrote to John Peel at the BBC asking for the Slowdive Peel Session > to be released. Many other bands have had their tracks released on CD > (Strange Fruit label), why not Slowdive? > > Well, my letters in the post!! > > John Peel > B.B.C. > Broadcasting House > London > W1A 1AA And for us "foreigners" - don't forget the "UK" (or England) on that letter. A good idea - my letter will be in the mail tomorrow, or, wait a second, can you e-mail Mr. Peel somewhere, somehow? That would be a lot easier, cheaper and I bet more people would request it... Does anyone know? //Erik (chief@lysator.liu.se) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:04:14 -0400 From: avalyn@chesco.com Subject: Re: ride dissapointment At 11:59 AM 5/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello! I must say that I was quite dissapointed by Ride's "Trauntula". >It is a sheer upset! I was was delighted by the groovy sounds of "COL" >that this release got me down. I do favor "Smile," but can anyone be >nice enough to tell me if the other albums are in the same league with >"COL"? Ride's other two albums (Nowhere and Going Blank Again) and certainly not in the same league with COL, because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO much beyond COL's league! COL is teetering on being crap if ya ask me (and Taratula is just a big piece of nothing). Nowhere and GBA are two of my absolute fav albums and they continue to be even though Ride turned into such crap and Andy's new band isn't too hot either. I still listen to all the pre-COL stuff the time, they are just plain wonderful! bye ryan ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:08:49 -0400 From: avalyn@chesco.com Subject: re: Ride At 01:52 PM 5/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >no, the other albums are not in the same league as "COL" (which i suppose >is Carnival of Light). They are phenomenally better. "Nowhere" is one of >the three greatest albums of all time (along with "Loveless" and s/t Stone >Roses), perhaps the best. every song on this album has at one time been my >favorite. Right now "Decay" is, especially played extremely loud with an >ear pressed to a speaker. "smile" is great as well. "Today Forever" is one >of the greatest e.p.'s ever released. "Going Blank Again" was the >transition to the horrific demise, and is merely OK. The "Leave Them All >Behind" e.p. is better to have than the whole "Going Blank Again" album. >It is shame that this band has changed so much for the worse, for they had >such potential. I saw them in Providence 1991 and my friend commented that >it was the greatest moment of his life. Gage I have to agree with you on everything you said here. Except I would rate GBA i bit higher than just ok. LTAB is one of my fav songs and most of the other songs are pretty cathcy tunes, though i certainly agree that it is no Nowhere. Have you heard Hurricane #1 yet? It's SOOOO average. Andy has lost it forever. bye ryan --------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 03:22:47 -0400 (EDT) From: JK1127@aol.com Subject: cd's needed please e-mail me or call me at 330-374-0577 if you have information on "blue day", the 1st slowdive ep and "catch the breeze" ep. thank you. --------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Moonstar9@aol.com Subject: (no list content) TO ALL NEW YORKERS *hipshaker* are playing at the spiral ( at 244 e houston by ave a) next wed. at 7:00 pm. they are a cross between the swirlies, the sundays, and the charlatans. cover is $6.00... ps. the show is all ages... --------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: grilledcheese Subject: Re: ride dissapointment > Ride's other two albums (Nowhere and Going Blank Again) and certainly not > in the same league with COL, because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO much beyond > COL's league! COL is teetering on being crap if ya ask me (and Taratula is i can only read so many of these before being forced to reply. carnival of light is a great record! don't think of it as a ride album, cos its not really, its just a very good piece of music.. and i don't even like all that 70ish stuff. as for the early stuff, now that's ride, excellent stuff, i finally broke down and bought tarantula.. it does blow. kinda like swervedriver at times (which is good), but i can only listen to about half of the songs. mike ---------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:19:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: chief@lysator.liu.se Subject: FWD: ride's downhill run Forwarded (please remember to post to the "avalyn@lysator.liu.se" address) message follows: > Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:38:28 -0400 > From: David Moyle > Subject: ride's downhill run (..... "Decay" is, especially played extremely loud with an ear pressed to a speaker. "smile" is great as well. "Today Forever" is one of the greatest e.p.'s ever released. "Going Blank Again" was the transition to the horrific demise, and is merely OK. .....) I agree with the last speaker, entirely. Going Blank Again really did sound like they had too much studio time on their hands, which for many is a blessing (refer Gage's "Loveless" comment) but for poor old Ride it was not. There's always something frightening in hearing a favourite band's new album for the first time...that worry that the Red House Painters might go retro on you or that Clan Analog will release a "Tarantula" of their own. Still, we should be judging any band as they were when we were most affected by them. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:19:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: chief@lysator.liu.se Subject: News from Rachel! Hey - it's the latest Mojave 3 info - straight from Rachel! (edited - private stuff cut out): > Date: 06 May 97 08:13:17 EDT > From: Rachel Goswell <101502.2725@CompuServe.COM> > To: "INTERNET:chief@lysator.l" > Subject: from Rachel. just a quick update for you...we have finished demoing new material and are currently choosing a producer. We hope to release a single in September, and the album will follow early next year - Jan/Feb...it's a slow process don't you know! having read the list the only thing that disturbed me was the part about the pirate cd of Blue Day that has been produced. This sort of thing doesn't normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal, it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law. How fucking rude can people get? Whoever you are, thanks alot! It's nice to know we're being ripped off by more than just a few........ Regards, Rachel. ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:33:18 -0400 From: avalyn@chesco.com Subject: Re: ride dissapointment >i can only read so many of these before being forced to reply. carnival of >light is a great record! don't think of it as a ride album, cos its not >really, its just a very good piece of music.. and i don't even like all >that 70ish stuff. as for the early stuff, now that's ride, excellent >stuff, i finally broke down and bought tarantula.. it does blow. kinda >like swervedriver at times (which is good), but i can only listen to about >half of the songs. > >mike Kinda like Swervedriver?! Swervedriver are a darn good band and certainly don't deserve being compared to Taratula, ya know? :) bye ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:31:03 GMT From: butterfly mcqueen Subject: Rachel's rxn to piracy Rachel sez: >having read the list the only thing that disturbed me was the part about the >pirate cd of Blue Day that has been produced. This sort of thing doesn't >normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But >I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were >not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't >make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal, >it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the >nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law. >How fucking rude can people get? Whoever you are, thanks alot! It's nice >to know we're being ripped off by more than just a few........ She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.) I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking seven-song CD! Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay kollectorskum prices for things like this. Same with Ecstasy & Wine, etc. Therefore, when I was presented with an opportunity to trade in my Blue Day CD for a CD with all of the same songs plus more, I took it -- I place no value in collectibles. Of course, I feel a little guilty for supporting someone who seems to be making profit from this -- for such an operation could *maybe* be justified if zero profit were made. (Also if the band's permission were had.) But then it's a question of quantifying costs -- how much can the "pirate" legitimately ask for to compensate for the time and effort (materials aside) s/he puts into such a thing? Very fuzzy area. In any event, I'm not a rich kid -- and therefore it seems that I have to compromise some of my ideals against my hunger for music. Of course, it somewhat contradicts my love for music itself, also being a musician -- but at some point I just give in. It just bothers me that I would have to pay $150 to have MBV's first album, a very bad album from what I've heard -- if I wanted a bad album, I'd fucking go to Tower and pick up the latest offering by Bush or some bullshit.... How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious to the demand for reissues? It strikes me as obvious that there is money to be made, unless I'm missing something important. Anyway, that's it. ; ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:03:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Gregory KURZ A208 P5655 STERIA Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy butterfly mcqueen writes: > She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some > reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.) > I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking > ... > ... > How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious to the > demand for reissues? It strikes me as obvious that there is money to be > made, unless I'm missing something important. Anyway, that's it. > > ; ed I agree with Rachel. It's a fact that musicians must earn money from their music as every worker do, and that piracy is a crime since someone makes unauthorized benefits from their work. But my question (to Rachel) is : do you still consider "Blue Day" as something you may earn money from ? If the answer is yes, then why is it unavailable ? The only way to have it legally is to : 1) spend monthes (that's what I've done) visiting CD retailers until you find a used one; 2) jump back in time to 1992, the year of its first release (I tried to concentrate on my karma and the stars but nothing happened...) So don't be surprised that some people make illegal copies and others buy them (it's the law of demand and supply: there's a big demand but no legal supply)! Can we call it piracy since there's no choise but buying illegal copies? If you're really disturbed with it, do something ! Ask whoever have the legal rights to distribute the music to do their job, WE (the people who listen to your music because we love it) need it badly... I'd say that Ed is right! On the other hand, I would be glad to send the money directly to you instead of giving it to Creation, 4AD or the guy who sells illegal copies on the net :) Legalize da music!! -=GrEg=- ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:08:06 +0300 (EET DST) From: Peter Peltonen Subject: Re: News from Rachel! > normally bother me as it is an inevitable pitfall of being in a band. But > I would urge people not to buy this stuff. It riles me that people who were > not in the band are making money out of us without our consent. We don't > make much money anyway, that's not the point. The point is it is illegal, > it affects us the band not you the buyer. and these people haven't the > nerve to ask our permisssion; because they know they are breaking the law. I couldn't agree you more when talking about pirate copies made of CD's _that are available_ for people to buy them. I live in Finland and I have never seen a copy of Blue day - original or copy. I would gladly buy either of those if I could because I desperately want to hear the music. Naturally I would prefer the original but what can you do if you can't find one? The question about bootlegs isn't all black and white - at least not for me. -- Peter pisara@dystopia.fi ------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:21:49 +0200 From: Jan.Sundstrom@ekuc.se (Jan Sundstrom) Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy edhong@cybercomm.net,Internet writes: > doesn't the demand for such an item show that some > reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise > EP.) I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20 or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers down if they broke this promise. > Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay > kollectorskum prices for things like this. It's bound to happen with some records. All bands have rarities, which fetch hilarious prices (Curve-Superblaster, Aphex Twin remix, Catherine Wheel-Come Back Again, Capacity to Change, Swervedriver- Ejector Seat promo CD). When it comes to collecting records, there's nothing called human rights. > How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious > to the demand for reissues? They may have reasons for not releasing stuff: some are ashamed of their early stuff, and don't want it to get spread anymore (but the fans still like it), other releases are tied to marketing stunts (like Blue Day), others can't be released due to contractual problems. As artist, you got to have the artistical freedom to release or not release stuff. Like artists making paintings, some weirdos don't sell them, just keep them for them self. There's nothing you can do about it. (well, except piracy ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:32:46 +0300 (EET DST) From: Peter Peltonen Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy > She's right -- BUT doesn't the demand for such an item show that some > reissues of old material would be justified? (Not just the Morningrise EP.) > I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40. $40 for a fucking > seven-song CD! Granted it's a damn good one, but no one should have to pay > kollectorskum prices for things like this. Same with Ecstasy & Wine, etc. Someone buys a used copy of Blue Day for 40$. The band gets no money for it - only the seller (usually a blood sucking rareties CD shop) does. Someone buys a pirate copy of Blue Day for 20$. The band gets no money here either. Both have paid money for the original CD. So I don't quite see the point here why I shouldn't buy the cheaper one. (Though I'd be happy if some- one offered me even the 40$ one :) Just my opinion, -- Peter pisara@dystopia.fi --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: conspiracy? Subject: Re: News from Rachel! Bootlegs. Tricky subject. In the case of Slowdive, when they signed to creation, did they give Creation exclusive rights to release their songs? Meaning, if say, I wanted to re-release the Slowdive EP, would I have to go to creation and arrange a royalty system, or would I have to ring up Neil and say, I want to re-release your stuff, how do I pay you? I have an idea, whay don't we ring up Alan from Creation, and all chip in on the Slowdive list, and buy the rights to their songs;). Okay maybe not:) Luckily, I had a friend who made a tape for me, but I'm CONSTANTLY looking for anything slowdive that I don't have. I'm pretty much in if I don't have it and i see it in a store, I'm buying it. Okay, here's a weird question, aimed at rachel, and up for general discussion. How would you feel if someone pressed a slowdive bootleg of older studio and rare songs in a good package with proper credit, sold it for a reasonable price (normal CD price or less), and then send all profits straight to the band? This is completely theoretical, but let's say I produced a 70 minute CD with all the EP's and other such stuff, and then pressed 1000 with nice covers and the like. Total cost including some advertising and promotion would be like $3000 tops (if I could get the songs for free). Then I sell them direct/wholesale for $5-$6 each, and send Slowdive a check for $2000-$3000. However, no one would do that much free work, and the illegality of it could land the band and myself in court;) theory, folks, theory. besides, I wouldn't know how to unload 1000 CD's... b e n a d r i a n - bpadrian@iupui.edu | t h e s u n f l o w e r c o n s p i r a c y | s o h c a h t o a | http://cord.iupui.edu/~bpadrian | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Milan D. Brych" Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy > Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20 > or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being > ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in > the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released > anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers > down if they broke this promise. Please get over it. Some people should just go and start a new hobby like CB radio collecting. With investments, there are good and bad ones. I hope for the sake of all those that don't have the Slowdive "rare" gems, Creation re-releases it all. I'm a collector too, but I wouldn't consider Slowdive to be any where near the top of a "collectable" bands list. They are one of my favorites ever, but that doesn't make them a good investment. On another subject, I read Rachel's piece in the Big Takeover mag. Kudos to her for really trying to stick it out for her fans. I think I can speak for all Mojave fans that we really really appreciate it. Milan --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:59:07 -0400 From: avalyn@chesco.com Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles I have to agree with you on this issue Jan. If something is released as limited, then it should never be released again. I hate when things are reissued even if they weren't supposed to be limited. And the enormous prices are just they way it is when something is rare. People are willing to pay for the stuff so why shouldn't someone sell if for what they are willing to pay? Stereolab singles cost $40 two months after they are released, why because they are rare and people are willing to pay for it. Now a record store charging more than the regular price when something limited first comes out is wrong. Buying pirated cds is just wrong too. It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree). Somewhere along the line they made money off that $40 used blueday, but they make nothing off of some pirated cd. I know my opinion is swayed because I'm not just into the music, but i'm into collecting it. A thrill for me is coming across that special 7" i need. I don't mind paying $25 for it cause if it was only $3 I'm sure it wouldn't be there for me to buy. Anyway its not like Slowdive stuff is THAT rare. Maybe Blueday is, but I've seen the singles around here and there and they are better than owning just blueday anyway. Go to reporecords.com and ask em what they have. I was there on Sat. and they had one of the old eps plus Pygmalion and i think the 5ep. bye ryan ---------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:33:24 -0400 (EDT) From: grilledcheese Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles > limited first comes out is wrong. Buying pirated cds is just wrong too. > It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree). Somewhere along the this may sound way off base, and i know its wrong.. but youve got to know where im coming from. i wish this anti-pirating uprising would have happened AFTER i got a chance to get one of those oh so talked about CDs. im really pissed about this, cos actually ill never get a chance to buy the stuff "legitamatly". sometimes when yr desperate... youve got to bend the rules, hell, id send the band $10 if i could to try to make things better, but i guess it doesnt matter, the guy is probably not going to sell any more after all the stink. >>> How can the people who own the rights to these albums be so oblivious >>> to the demand for reissues? this i would like to know. unless its contractual reasons of course i don't see why it would be bad. ..except for kolectorscum who for some reason WANT the stuff to be hard to get. mike ---------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:46:56 +0100 From: Jason Morehead <00161068@bigred.unl.edu> Subject: rachel's article hi all... is the article rachel wrote for the big takeover on the web anywhere. if so, could someone send me the url? thanks! jason ----------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:57:08 +0000 (GMT) From: butterfly mcqueen Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy > Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20 > or so. Blue Day is not a normal album, since it was marketed as being > ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in > the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released > anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers > down if they broke this promise. That's not salient in this case -- we're not talking about completism here, about some obscure release not many would want aside from collectible value. We're talking about a compilation of earlier stuff that is in heavy demand because of its actual music content -- a representation of Slowdive's early self. Not many want to go around hunting for the separate EP's, though hearing Blue Day may motivate one to do so in order to get the rest of the material. And apparently the demand is far heavier than they originally estimated -- I'm sure that they would have expanded output in the original run if they knew that people would eat this shit up like they do. So your point about going back on their word about Blue Day being a limited item, while technically sound, is a misplacement of value. Fuck the "original fans" who want to hoard the shit to themselves and let the CDs age and increase in value. That's musical and financial elitism, and it has no place in our "musicial commercial discourse," as it were. >> kollectorskum prices for things like this. > > It's bound to happen with some records. All bands have rarities, which > fetch hilarious prices (Curve-Superblaster, Aphex Twin remix, Catherine > Wheel-Come Back Again, Capacity to Change, Swervedriver- Ejector Seat > promo CD). > When it comes to collecting records, there's nothing called human > rights. I think that's bullshit -- music should be an accessible thing. No personal offense meant by the obscene language.... just disagreement. Yours truly, ; ed ---------------------------------- End of The Avalyn Digest #2.10 ****************************** * To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Digest version of the list, send your request (including the word "DIGEST") to: avalyn-request@lysator.liu.se * To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Live version of the list, send your request to: avalyn-request@lysator.liu.se * The maintainer of both mailing lists is chief@lysator.liu.se, and can also be reached at owner-avalyn@lysator.liu.se * All messages to the Live mailing list should be sent to: avalyn@lysator.liu.se * The digests can also be found in in ASCII format at ftp.lysator.liu.se /pub/texts/uxu/avalyn and in HTML format at http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/avalyn.html.