Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Subject: Re: Magick, Power, Depression, and the 13 Black Adepts
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 20:25:39 GMT

Richard wrote:
>|We might note that some don't even do mundane tasks well 
>|unless there is some element of danger -- routine, mundane junk
>|is too easy to warrant their concentration.  

Tyagi@cup.portal.com (Tyagi Mordred Nagasiva) writes:
> Then they are not accustomed to discipline, for discipline is born
> from continuous, routine, repetition.

Richard's response:
	Is repetition the only means of attaining discipline?  If I do
the same meditation every day for a year and it seems different every
time, does it mean that I'm undisciplined, or just perceptive?

	I can listen to the same Bach fugue thousands of times and get
something different out of it each time. It never becomes
routine... it never gets boring...


> No matter what the task.  No matter what the goal.  Discipline is
> the will to continue regardless of the reasons to stop.  Regardless
> of the competing activities.  Regardless of who says we are insane.
> Discipline is the will to continue.  There is no stopping the one
> who is disciplined.

	Possibly.  I've seen an awful lot of tightly-controlled
persons stop dead at about forty of a heart attack, but you could
counter by defining them as something other than disciplined.
Self-destructive behavior is often represented to me as 'discipline'
but I expect that is not what you're referring to.  Or is it?

	Discipline can also get one into a groove, and the only
difference between a groove and a grave is the depth.

	Also we're using different definitions of 'danger'... 


>Most who don't do 'mundane' tasks well can't concentrate anyway.

	I note that whenever I concentrate, the world ceases to be
mundane... but how can we measure concentration, and so tell who
concentrates better than whom?

>|Thus some occultists
>|might be labelled thrill-seekers or adrenalin junkies.  

> Is the person who goes to an amusement park a 'mystic'?  I think
> not.

	I'm certain that some mystics go to amusement parks ...  but I
was referring to that Zen moment of spontaneous concentration that
comes with danger.  Certainly many mystics have led lives filled with
danger.  (Of course, we probably have very different ideas of what
constitutes danger...)  Ignatius of Loyola comes to mind, and who was
that Nazorean chap who liked to taunt the priests and then turn him
invisible just as they were picking up rocks to throw at him...?  Not
to mention all those Zen samurai, whacking away with katanas...

>|Occultism
>|may not offer any positive effects, but anyone can point to a
>|good number of folks who have royally screwed up their mundane 
>|lives by dint of occultism.  

	My point here was that anything that is useful can be used for
good or ill.  As usual, my dilatory subtlety has pushed the patience
of the long-suffering reader to the limit...

	...I finally  manage to make the point explicitly...

>|Occultism can definitely screw up
>|your life -- and Hermes Trismegistus might say that anything that
>|can be used for evil can also be used for good.

> Evil and good are the snakes which entwine themselves about the
> Sacred Caduceus.

>Someone turned up your walkman too loud.

	What saaaay?  Speak *up*!


>|LVX

>|rmr