From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #74 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/74 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 74 Today's Topics: [B7L] Round Robin 33 Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] unsubscribing Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Round Robin 33 Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Round Robin 33: Errata Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats [B7L] Chris Boucher fan club - was the 'Volcano' strategy Re: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs [B7L] Servalan's temperament Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Fannishness Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:38:59 -0700 (MST) From: Penny Dreadful To: Subject: [B7L] Round Robin 33 Message-Id: <199902222038.NAA13516@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** "Barkeep! Hit me again!" The bartender of the still-deserted Mended Drum raised his eyebrow(s). He hadn't seen a wench slam back three of his patented Widowmakers in such quick succession since Mulberry Nipples had lived in the neighbourhood, working as a palliative homecare nurse for the sickly but sweet Lord Pancreas. But once again she had managed to extract a small but authentic gold piece from parts unknown while his attention was elsewhere, and so, once again, he hit her. "And *another* thing," she resumed the soliloquy begun two Widowmakers ago. "Experienced pilot. Piloting experience. Me. Ha! Wasted! A monk--" The bartender discreetly rolled his eyes toward the large sign on the wall, which looked as though it must at some point have spelled out a fairly lengthy list of prohibitions, but time and blunt trauma had obliterated all but the last rule, recently repainted in gore, it appeared: "USE OF THEE 'M-WORDE' IS STRICTLY PROHIBITTED IN THIS ESSTABLISHMENT" "I mean an *orangutan* could fly that thing. Where's the *challenge*? I *need* the challenge. I'm a hands-on kind of girl." Jenna downed her fourth Widowmaker. "Try telling that to *him*, though, he'll assume you *are* talking about practical application of theoretical knowledge," she muttered. The bartender nodded sympathetically. He was unaccustomed to the situation in which he now found himself. Indeed, it was utterly unprecedented in the long history of the Mended Drum, not excluding the numerous chapters wherein the establishment in question was on fire. *One* customer. Something to tell your grandchildren, that.[1] The front door slammed open. Jenna spun round on her stool. "Is that the harlot to whom you were referring?" Ridcully inquired. "No. She had short brown hair and -- she was *not* a harlot, Archchancellor! In any case, you saw her as well as I did," the Senior Wrangler pouted. "Somehow I don't think I could have." "I'll have what she's having," said the Chair in Indefinite Studies. Observing the way the comely not-a-harlot was staring at his hat, he waggled his eyebrows and moved toward her. "Come here often?" he asked Jenna. "Are you wizards?" she demanded. He glanced over his shoulder and saw they had all followed him. "We are," said Ridcully. "And right now we're looking for a harlot." The Dean leaned close and murmured something in his ear. "Who has left her locked vehicle parked in a precarious position on our property," he appended hurriedly. "What a coincidence!" Jenna exclaimed. "Speaking of precariously parked vehicles..." *** "Is that--" "Servalan's pursuit ship? Of course." "Of course." Avon holstered his gun, which he had drawn when he saw the shape sidling along the stone wall of the tower upon which the mighty vehicle now swayed. "Cally. I'm glad I found you. The Liberator--" "Got shot down and embedded itself in a bog, and the teleporter's out?" "So you *can* read my mind," Avon said with a smirk, then grew pale. "You know, Cally, picturing the person you're talking to wearing nothing but black socks is a common technique by which Earthlings overcome--" "I didn't read your mind. Orac told me." Avon grinned. "I knew that. Now, what do you propose we do to rectify this situation before Blake gets wind of it and makes my life a living hell hereafter for coercing him into stopping here?" "Something tells me our answer lies *there*," Cally said, pointing to a relatively low building, resolutely nondescript except that it glowed, to her, a brilliant octarine. Which colour Avon was not capable of perceiving, but he *could* make out the sign. "High Energy Magic Building," he read, and nodded. "Let's go." They moved cautiously out from the shadow of the pursuit ship and scurried serpentine across the lawn toward the other building. "Anyhow, as I recall," said Cally as they ran, "I was wearing a gun-belt and a lampshade, as well." "Look!" Avon replied. "A pregnant mare!" *** "...and then Todd 'Small Ears' Nipples said to keep an eye out for men in red dresses, as you might be able to help." "Wise man, this young Nipples. I'm quite sure we can. Shall we adjourn to the Bog?" "But what about the, erm--" one of the wizards jerked his head meaningfully in the direction of the University. The Dean made "teetering spaceship" motions, although given that he had been trying to catch up with Jenna on the Widowmaker front, he probably wasn't capable of any other. "Well she's obviously not here," said Ridcully. "Tell me, Miss, did you happen to see a--" "--perfectly respectable," the Senior Wrangler interjected. "White dress, short hair..." The words petered out as Jenna suddenly choked on her drink, and then began screaming obscenities at her jewelry. "Must be a rival," the Dean remarked. "Very competitive business, I hear." "Not compared to fruit-vending." "Well, no." "Same to you, Orac, *and* the horse you metaphorically rode in on," the blonde woman told her bracelet. She leapt off her stool. "All right, we've got to get back to the Bog. Are you with me? What are those?" "Dried frog pills, Miss. Wondrous for making one's fashion accessories cease sassing one." She looked sorely tempted, but declined. "No, I've got to keep on my toes. Barkeep, when my companions get back, would you please tell them I've gone to the Bog?" The bartender nodded, and Jenna and the wizards hurried out the door, leaving him all alone in the Mended Drum, trying desperately to justify his existence. He scratched his chin. Maybe, he thought, he ought to take this unique opportunity to tidy up a little. ------ [1] Although as far as that goes a Mended Drum bartender living long enough to tell his grandchildren *anything* would be unprecedented in itself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:43:45 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julius Caesar Message-ID: <007301be5ea4$7c32bce0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet said - >Basically, I've never seen a production that was as slashy as I'd do it! This is why I wish we had technology that would let us see a play, or read a poem, through someone else's perception of it. The imagination can do it so much better than reality. That's what my story 'Radioheads' is about in a way (shameless plug). Also I think that's what all fan fiction is about (in a way). In other word's I'd like to see Harriet's platonic version of Julius Caesar. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:39:33 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <007201be5ea4$7ae30b60$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > >> This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I took >> the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't >> really recognise myself in it. I think that the descriptions are very harsh to SJ types (revenge for the fact that you are in the majority in real life). My favourite exemplar of ISTJ is Data - do you think you could identify with him Jacqueline? He is my favourite character in ST:TNG. He is so sincere and so open hearted. Woops I'm getting way off B7 here. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:03:00 EST From: DRAGON6435@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] unsubscribing Message-ID: <9638d069.36d1c604@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, I give, just how the heck am I supposed to get off of here. I tried twice last night with the insructions I had and it bounced both times and said they couldn't find my name so I wasn't being unsubscribed. HELP!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:37:34 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <19990223073734.39780@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 02:05:37PM -0000, Alison Page wrote: > Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think > Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ (correct me if I'm wrong > ladies) I'm one of these (seemingly common here) INTJ's. Strong I, middling J, but it seems like every second time I take the test I come up as INFJ instead! I suppose that accounts for the fact that I'm a computer programmer who writes poetry. (And that the Blake's 7 characters I most empathize with are Avon and Cally.) > The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump > fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild > mannered. Whether or not Avon is rude enough to be INTJ, he *must* be a J rather than a P, because he's such a *planning* person. He doesn't have to be a strong J, but he's definitely a J. > I am amused to note that there is a mailing list for INTJ's ('I'm in hell > and it's full of Avons' ;-) I am even more amused to note that the list is > one of the rudest on the Internet, and that once you have subscribed they > won't give you instructions about how to unsubscribe - you have to find out > for yourself by investigation. Sounds just about right to me. From my experience, I think INTJ's aggravate each other's characteristics in close proximity. I recall six months when my second brother and I were looking after the house when my parents were overseas, and he's most probably an INTJ type (definitely more T than F... he's *very* calmly unemotional about things -- I have never seen him get upset) -- we spent a great deal of time doing "pedant jokes"; that is, making a joke of correcting each other's meaning. *We* knew it was a joke, but we got into the habit of correcting everyone else, and they didn't take it as a joke. Kathryn Andersen (A.S.K.S. -- Avon's Sympathetic Kindred Spirit) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:06:16 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Neil Faulkner wrote: >What the f--k is Myers Briggs? A personality classification system. See: http://www.hronline.com/lib/recruit/faq-mbti.html http://keirsey.com/ http://typelogic.com/ for some basic info. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:10:15 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: >This makes me almost afraid to ask how us ISTJ's could be recognised. I took >the test on the internet, but when I got back the ISTJ-score, I didn't >really recognise myself in it. What were your rankings? If you're not strongly polarized on one or more of the four scales, your final type can easily slide around a bit depending on when you take the test. Usually you should take it several times over a period of months and see what changes and what doesn't. Many people are indeterminate between two types. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:13:03 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mistral@ptinet.net wrote: >I really think he's so borderline that there's no real way to resolve it; I agree there; he could be classed as INTx. I tend to place him as INTP, weak P, mainly because I see him as clearly more P-ish than I am and I'm a weak J myself. I really think he naturally falls on the P side of the scale; the INTJ persona he tries to project never rings quite true to me. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:07:35 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Calle Dybedahl wrote: >So how would you recognise us INFPs? Frowsy curls, very skinny, gets taken over by alien entities a lot? - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:18:52 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D1C9BB.A6613942@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: > I have found that B7 has really helped me to hold my own in MBTI circles, > despite massive gaps in my background knowledge. When a personality type > comes up I think of the B7 equivalent, and describe that. [*] I use it the other way 'round. A friend of mine's husband and I always fight, cannot speak to each other without a referee. I got them to do a Myers-Briggs, then laughed hysterically when I discovered "Oh no! He's Blake!" Wish I'd known it sooner, I'd have known how to handle him. > [*] For instance a > discussion thread was 'how do you recognise ENTJ types'. I thought of > Servalan, and said 'dress in an intimidating manner, often have severe > haircuts, use their physical appearance consciously to get their own way', > which was apparently a good answer. Might have been easier to say 'tasteless megalomaniac'. > Interesting that all three enthusiasts (so far) are NTP (I am ENTP). I think > Pat and Lisa are keen and I guess they are NTJ (correct me if I'm wrong > ladies) As Lisa pointed out, NTs love to analyze. I'd like to add that I read somewhere (and it makes perfect sense to me), that, lacking much facility in the F function, things like the MBTI help INTs understand the behaviour of others, and try to sort out a way not to be so socially inept (with admittedly limited results, at least in my case). > The most perennial MBTI controversy is whether Avon is INTJ or INTP. I plump > fair and square for INTJ, on the basis that INTP types are far too mild > mannered. Apparently, Allison you have never been in the room when an INTP has gone volcano . We are terrifying. Perhaps some INTPs are more disciplined than others, but INTPs repress emotions-- when they do come out, it's usually with an explosion, and in my experience (referring not just to myself here, but other family and friends as well), INTPs are far more likely to express negative emotions than positive ones (positive ones being easier to repress, and also potentially more embarrassing, since the negative ones are easier for the INTP to justify in his mind). I can never quite decide which side of the Avon--P/J controversy I'm on, but I'd say his occasional outbursts are an argument *for* P, not against it. > I am amused to note that there is a mailing list for INTJ's ('I'm in hell > and it's full of Avons' ;-) I am even more amused to note that the list is > one of the rudest on the Internet, and that once you have subscribed they > won't give you instructions about how to unsubscribe - you have to find out > for yourself by investigation. Sounds just about right to me. Cannot read this paragraph without losing it I think I'll print it out in big letters and post it on my wa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-llll...... Lisa said: > I'm standing firm that he is, by nature, an INTP who -- mostly through > force of circumstances -- is trying to pass for an INTJ. Left to choose > according to his own preferences, I think Avon would be quite solidly INTP. > It's a fairly minor conflict, since the two types are so simliar I have to go a little off topic to explain my comment here: my best friend and I went through the MBTI process together, and both of us had real trouble deciding whether we were INTP or INTJ. There were two reasons for this difficulty; the first being that we're both extremely borderline, because of about 15 years' each of very deliberately trying to cultivate J behaviours as an antidote to some P weaknesses that were troubling us; the second being that we idolize each other, having sort of a mutual appreciation club, and want to be more like each other, so we couldn't quite believe that we could possibly have the same type; we each think of the other as more INTJ. Back on topic: an extremely strong case can be built for Avon as INTP or as INTJ; based on that, and on my first reason in the preceding paragraph, I have to conclude that 1) Avon's extremely borderline on P/J and 2) Lisa's conclusion above is extremely plausible. I tend to want to see him as INTJ; but based on my second reason in the preceding paragraph, that could just be the fact that I consider Avon my best role model (make of that what you will), and for that reason just don't want to see him as the same type as myself. Allison again: > All in all the combination of B7 and MBTI has given me hours of harmless > fun. Always assuming, of course, that you can manage to think of mucking around with other people's heads fun . Next? Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:14:34 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" VJC wrote: >To whom do you refer? Klaus Heinz von dem Eberbach, of the Eroica fandom. The poor dear is a born ISTP who's been conditioned to think he's supposed to be an ISTJ. He is, as I said, thoroughly messed up. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:48:01 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: B7 list Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB44@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Alison said: > My favourite exemplar of ISTJ is Data - do you think you could identify > with him Jacqueline? > Data is definately not a bad second to Avon when it comes to people I could identify with. Thanks, Alison, you just made my day. :-) Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:45:33 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB43@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Lisa asked: > What were your rankings? If you're not strongly polarized on one or more > of > the four scales, your final type can easily slide around a bit depending > on > when you take the test. Usually you should take it several times over a > period of months and see what changes and what doesn't. Many people are > indeterminate between two types. > I forgot and I don't remember where I found that test anymore. Do you know a site that has it? Not that I think tests really mean all that much. When I took that test, I also took two different IQ-tests (on the same day), and came up with at least 25 points difference between the two tests. But it is fun to compare scores. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:50:32 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Round Robin 33 Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB45@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain > "So you *can* read my mind," Avon said with a smirk, then grew pale. "You > know, Cally, > picturing the person you're talking to wearing nothing but black socks is > a common technique > by which Earthlings overcome--" > This was probably as close as you could get to having to take this to the other list :-). Loved it! Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1999 23:04:57 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: mistral@ptinet.net writes: > What I *really* want to know is, how does this relate to the panda > in the frig? Sshh! Don't mention him! -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se "...a festering realization that all you do is no more than the futile slapping of paint onto the rotting, decayed infrastructure of the Information Superhighway." -- Jinx_tigr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:49 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FB46@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Thanks, Lisa, for pointing us to those tests. I just took it again, and came out as ISTJ again. The J was a bit weak but the rest seemed very definate (especially the T). Oh well, so I'm like Data. Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7? Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:56:24 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <19990222225625.26730.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Alison said: >Calle said - >>So how would you recognise us INFPs? >Hmm... Well my 'use the B7 equivalent' breaks down here, unless you count minor characters. [snip] >If you have read 'Down with Skool' think Fotherington Thomas. Oh, my God! That photograph linked to the list's home page might make Calle look a little on the ethereal side, but I can't actually see him wandering along reciting "Hello trees, hello sky." Being INFP myself, I like Mistral's Avon with teddy bear idea much better. What say you, Calle? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:52:31 -0000 From: "Jonathan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <015f01be5f81$cfbf6740$f223883e@ming> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I found an interesting list of fictional INTJ personalities - there were real ones as well, but it seems fairer to compare like with like: Fictional: Cassius (Julius Caesar) Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice) Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books) Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation) [who ?] Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet) George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs) Copyright © 1996 by Marina Margaret Heiss and Joe Butt - Who I hope won't mind me using this. I've lost the URL, but the site's easy to altavista and very worth looking at - the description of an intj fits Avon perfectly. In fact if Avon isn't an intj, I can't see who is. I'd say that Avon fits nicely in here ( right between Darcy and Lecter ?) Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well. The Augustus Caesar was listed as a historical intj and I remember that Elizabeth I was a member of the club too ; on her own terms Servalan was probably just as statesperson-like as these two - perhaps it's time for a historical re-evaluation of her role? Main thing is, she's an intellectual, pragmatic and wants to make the world work according to her rules - definitively intj, she just hacks political systems rather than computers. Speaking as an INTJ, I've always had a definite sense that she and Avon were behaving a way that I found reasonable, unlike Blake and Cally. I can easily imagine Shakespeare's lines about Cassius being applied to her, she stalks Avon and co. very much in the way Smiley stalks Karla, and the Lecter thing is fairly obvious. We may not be entirely sure that we want her, but she's an intj, dammit ! Oh, and Avon/Servalan fans might want to read CJ Cheryth's SF novel "Cyteen," the main character of which could well pass as the (borderline sociopath) daughter of the pair. PS What would really be hard would be typing Dr Who's. I'd take #1 and #4 as intj (#4 's brilliant plan's that as often as not overlooked a single crucial piece of the real world would seem to be definitively intj to me, see Heiss' site), #5 as intp, #7as infj - but #6 ? and #2 ??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:16:16 -0700 (MST) From: Penny Dreadful To: Lysator CC: Subject: [B7L] Round Robin 33: Errata Message-Id: <199902222316.QAA14091@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoops! I completely forgot that Avon had Rincewind with him. Which is doubly sad given that I was the one who wrote that plot development. So, as you watch Cally and Avon scuttling toward the relative safety of the High Energy Magic Building, I would ask you all to mentally insert a screeching Rincewind being dragged along by the scruff of his neck. With Eddwode apparently starting to run the show I guess what I *really* need is a Continuity God. --Penny "2001 Maniacs" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:39:50 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] More B7 game stats Message-ID: <19990222233950.16664.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >AVON >Sex Appeal 12 (default skill level) >TARRANT >Sex Appeal 13 This is the Tarrant Nostra edition, surely? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:10:19 +1100 From: "Afenech" To: "lysator" Subject: [B7L] Chris Boucher fan club - was the 'Volcano' strategy Message-Id: <23343806002265@domain0.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral said: <> a not uncommon view -smile- from my perspective it is the characters which made and continue to make B7 so engrossing and the characterisation probably owes a great deal to Chris Boucher. Time again to whine pathetically, why, why, why couldn't he have been asked to write the radio plays? I know the reaon -smile- but it's so maddening! Pat F ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:54:55 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Charged with attempted filking... Message-ID: <19990222235455.23371.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >Joanne was pulled over by the filk police and given a citation of merit for: Thank you for your confidence in me (and thank you to those who commented), but you shouldn't be tempting me to do it again. Even if I have a few more ideas for filks floating around in the brain right now... Jacqueline, are you really that bad at singing? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:11:05 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <003401be5ec1$300b5260$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathon's list was good. But really you should also show a list of fictional INTPs too for comparison. FWIW I put Sherlock Holmes and Spock as INTP. Harriet will be pleased that Cassius is included. >>Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well. Servalan is most certainly ENTJ. Remember Cassius didn't actually want to be Caeser. Who do they put for ENTJ? >> PS What would really be hard would be typing Dr Who's. I'd take #1 and #4 as intj (#4 's brilliant plan's that as often as not overlooked a single crucial piece of the real world would seem to be definitively intj to me, see Heiss' site), #5 as intp, #7as infj - but #6 ? and #2 ??? I like to think Dr Number 4 is ENTP like me (and 'Q' ). For a start we all have untidy curly hair and that settles it. Dr Number 2 is perhaps INTP, or INFP? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:38:53 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myer's Briggs Message-ID: <36D1F89C.7A1E54AB@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > Thanks, Lisa, for pointing us to those tests. I just took it again, and came > out as ISTJ again. The J was a bit weak but the rest seemed very definate > (especially the T). Oh well, so I'm like Data. Or are there any ISTJ > characters on B7? I've seen Soolin posited an ISTP, but I'd make her a weak P, so if you're a weak J, that might be close. Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:03:28 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902230102.TAA09616@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:52 PM 2/23/99 , Jonathan wrote: >I found an interesting list of fictional INTJ personalities - there were >real ones as well, but it seems fairer to compare like with like: You have to remember, though, that any assignments of types to fictional characters (or dead historical ones) are extremely debatable. I disagree with a bunch of the ones at that site (it's the typlogic.com site), I know. Their type descriptions aren't bad -- sketchy, but they give you an idea. You really need the more complete ones in _Please Understand Me_ to get a good feel for the system, though. >the description of an intj fits Avon perfectly. In fact if Avon isn't an >intj, I can't see who is. I don't think so -- I think Avon is someone who is putting up a pretty good INTJ front, but it isn't real. Some of his behavior is pure, state-of-the-art INTP (his fascination with the Sopron, for exmaple; that was *pure* INTP, and not INTJ). And there's the bit about INTPs having "the haunting sense of impending failure." I just don't think Avon *really* has the classic INTJ arrogant self-assurance. He tries very hard to project that appearance, certainly, but I always see that "sense of impending failure" lurking below it. "An INTP arguing a point may very well be trying to convince himself as much as his opposition." -- I see that a lot in Avon. >Servalan, whose type seemed most in dispute might feel at home as well. Close, but not quite; Servalan's ENTJ. She's not an I; she needs people to control and command. (Remember, being an E doesn't mean you *like* people; it indicates that in some way you draw energy from being around them -- even from using them. An I thrives in solitude, and I don't think Servalan would do well in solitude.) Read the ENTJ profile on the typelogic.com site, or read the more detailed one in _Please Understand Me_; it's easily Servalan. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:05:27 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902230102.TAA09624@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: >Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7? Travis. There, that made you feel better, didn't it? - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:30:36 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Servalan's temperament Message-ID: <19990223013036.29878.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Lisa said: > An I thrives in solitude, and I don't think Servalan >would do well in solitude.) Heavens, yes. It would be like depriving a plant of sunlight. It might survive, but it wouldn't necessarily thrive. Ouch! Now I've got an image in my head of a droopy-leaved Servalan stuck on Terminal. Down, dreadful imagination, down! Regards Joanne (The I and the F are definite; everything else is subject to change without notice ) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:45:17 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D2082B.D4C868BA@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Williams wrote: > I don't think so -- I think Avon is someone who is putting up a pretty good > INTJ front, but it isn't real. Some of his behavior is pure, > state-of-the-art INTP (his fascination with the Sopron, for exmaple; that > was *pure* INTP, and not INTJ). And there's the bit about INTPs having "the > haunting sense of impending failure." I just don't think Avon *really* has > the classic INTJ arrogant self-assurance. He tries very hard to project > that appearance, certainly, but I always see that "sense of impending > failure" lurking below it. "An INTP arguing a point may very well be trying > to convince himself as much as his opposition." -- I see that a lot in Avon. Lisa, I think that's a point to you-- you've convinced me-- for today at least. Somebody mentioned the Sopron before, as evidence of INTJs 'work before play' attitude, but I've always thought that bit indicated the INTPs 'work=play' attitude. The nail in the coffin, though, is "the haunting sense of impending failure" line. Vila may always be able to sense danger, even when there isn't any, but Avon can always sense disaster, even when there isn't any (although there usually is). If I'd realized that was an INTP trait, I don't think I'd have ever been in any doubt. It certainly describes me, and almost every other INTP I've known. I can't imagine how I've missed running across it, having read everything on the subject that I can find. I probably just overlooked it, if it's worded in just that way. Would you be so kind as to give me the reference for that, please? And yes, IMHO Avon's *very* insecure. How in the Galaxy could anyone doubt it? I very much appreciated your comment on why Servalan is an E. Many things are now much clearer. Going off to meditate on impending failure, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:37:33 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902230234.UAA22326@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mistral@ptinet.net wrote: >Somebody mentioned the Sopron before, as evidence of INTJs 'work before play' >attitude, but I've always thought that bit indicated the INTPs 'work=play' >attitude. I'm associating it more with the tendency of INTPs to get all fascinated with some intellectual tangent and to stay on it, almost obsessively, to the exclusion of all else, until they fully understand it. INTPs focus more on what is fascinating at the moment, regardless of the big picture. From Keirsey & Bates (_Please Understand Me_): "INTPs can become obsessed with analysis. Once caught up in a thought process, that thought process seems to have a will of its own for INTPs, and they persevere until the issue is comprehended in all its complexity." Whenever I read that, Avon and his pet rock come to mind. >Would you be so kind as to give me the reference for that, please? The "impending failure" bit is from the INTP profile on the site. I've seen the same idea brought up in other places, in particular when discussing how to tell an INTP from an INTJ -- admittedly often difficult, as the basic personalities are very similar and many INTPs and INTJs seem to hover around the middle of the P-J scale anyhow. To sum it up, INTJs know damned well that they're always right; INTPs aren't quite so sure, and they waffle and second-guess themselves. Watching Avon in "Horizon", for instance, trying to convince himself that he can just take off and leave the others, and finally going down after them, I see an INTP. >I very much appreciated your comment on why Servalan is an E. Many things are >now much clearer. I liked this bit, from the ENTJ description on the typelogic.com site: TRADEMARK: -- "I'm really sorry you have to die." (I realize this is an overstatement. However, most Fs and other gentle souls usually chuckle knowingly at this description.) - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:22:23 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990222202223.2d87fe00@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > >>Or are there any ISTJ characters on B7? > >Travis. > >There, that made you feel better, didn't it? > > - Lisa It should -- this means you can like totally get into his head for the Flat Robin, Jacqueline! Identify with the character! Whenever I take these tests I always turn out to be a total unequivocal INTP, which is apparently Myers-Briggsese for 'loser'...the one I took today, one of the sites posted here, gave Albert Einstein and Marie Curie as examples of my species. I gather we function best at the subatomic level. Not to say they were losers, but I'd like a role model with a bit more pizzazz. And better hair. --Penny "Mutants Must Rule" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:19:49 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Fannishness Message-ID: <36D21E54.2323@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > And the back-biting against Jenna when she's assumed to have sold > them out together with the total lack of any apology afterwards when > their shown to be wrong. Surely it should have been obvious whose > side Jenna was really on when she kicked their restraints out of sight > of the guard without revealing that they were attempting to free > themselves? I never understood quite what there was no reaction to > that. > Um. And if they _didn't_ insult Jenna, what would the guy with her have thought? They had to act 'natural'-- that is totally be p*ssed off at her. It was clear she wasn't quite trusted yet; their rage necessary. And I don't know how many of them actually noticed her notice the restraints. I imagine Cally would, at any rate-- she tends to be aware of her surroundings. And Blake was ready to work cooperatively with her, so he probably realized. I can argue that Vila would be the most likely to be aware of the need to play anger-- he's been in and out of prisons all his life, and knows about covering for each other. Etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:24:24 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D21F67.2D62@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VJC wrote: > > Antone interested in getting back to that interesting temperment > analysis strand? > > Vick > > Sociopath and INTP Always. I found it fascinating and opened up insights about myself. I was just talking about it with my husband the other day-- he was of the opiinion Vila might not really be an E. I think he's off base, but does anyone else see Vila as a possible I? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:29:14 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's background-- speculation Message-ID: <36D22089.34E6@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 422ami wrote: > > Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > I think he is incorrigible in a totalitarian environment, where > > it is a crime to challenge authority. Where it is a crime to challenge > > authority, then the desire comes to challenge authority through crime. > > Let me, basing on my own experience in living in totalitarian society, to > say, that the usual way, one use to challenge authority _never_ is a crime. > The crime level in the totalitarian societies is even lower, than in > democratic ones. But if thinking for yourself is liable to be construed as a crime, and you can't and won't stop thinking for yourself, you _might as well_ do some real crimes and maybe make enough money to get _out_ of there. You could be exiled or executed for being a professor who teaches the wrong thing. One might point out that there has been a tendancy lately for people under stress to do the highest level of crime-- murder. Literally going postal-- from the fact that over-watched, oppressed postal workers were the ones most likely to snap. --The Avona Helen (one 'l', I think people can tell us apart) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:44:34 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-ID: <36D22421.7F41@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > > Oi! Iain you are supposed to be INTJ. I have just said that INTJ people are > rude and inconsiderate and then you go and say something kind and > thoughtful. Are you trying to make me look daft or what? > My husband says the reason people like me, even though I'm INTJ, is that I can't be phoney for social purposes, so when I say something nice, they know I'm being utterly sincere. --Avona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:04:45 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Myers Briggs Message-Id: <199902230313.VAA27339@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Penny Dreadful wrote: >Not to say they were losers, but I'd like a role model with a bit more >pizzazz. And better hair. Well, I've handed you Avon on a silver-studded platter as an INTP. What more could you ask for? OK, so he *was* a loser. Picky, picky, picky... - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #74 *************************************