From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #310 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/310 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 310 Today's Topics: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #308 Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin? [B7L] NEWSFLASH? RE: [B7L] NEWSFLASH? Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan [B7L] Sorting Blake et al into Hogwarts houses (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #308) Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan Tariel cells in the ystem... [B7L] Re: Newsflash/SORRY (off-topic) [B7L] Servalan motivation Re: [B7L] Re: Newsflash/SORRY (off-topic) Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation [B7L] more captions! Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 22:01:42 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #308 Message-ID: <381E7035.63CB@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After all > Avon never shows the slightest interest in 'nice' people anyway > - he seems to prefer a darker quality of personality (see the > list above - some good, some bad, none what you would call nice). This comment was personally very intriguing... I don't know how many of you are interested in the "Harry Potter" books, but I realized while planning a little fanfic around them that I would place myself in Slytherin, not because I have the 'ends justifies the means' ambition, but because I realize I find 'dark' personalities much more interesting. --Avona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:38:49 -0800 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan Message-ID: In message <19991031064057.87097.qmail@hotmail.com>, Sally Manton writes >He loathes Servalan's methods, her morals and her morality (if >she has any) She has, although the writing was not always consistent. The overall impression in the first three series is of someone who genuinely believes in the Federation, even if she wants to be at the top of it. The Star One story arc is quite telling, especially the bit where Travis offers her the ultimate power available to a Federation citizen, ie control of Star One - and she turns him down. This is one of the wonderful things about Blake's 7. The bad guys believe themselves to be the good guys. -- Julia Jones ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 02:57:23 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:evidence of the Systrem being of human origin? Message-ID: <381EC392.B158C3E0@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Proctor wrote: > On Fri 29 Oct, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > > I take it the limiter idea comes from Gan's statement in Time Squad that > > sometimes Zen acts like he has a limiter; but that's simply an opinion of > > Gan's, and probably heavily coloured by his frame of reference. It's not > > a statement of fact. Apart from Gan's idea, there's really nothing in Zen's > > behaviour that couldn't be explained by some fairly sophisticated programming. > > Zen has times when he tries to warn them and is unable to do so. Something is > restricting him. It doesn't really matter whether the limiter is a physical > device or a form of software - its function is the same. You're right, of course; I think we're at cross-purposes here. I'm not intending a hardware/software distinction at all; the *apparent* function is the same. But Gan's limiter overrides his free will-- Blake said it's supposed to kick in when he's under enough stress to kill. A computer program doesn't have a free will, but it might give the appearance of one, if, for example, two subroutines were in conflict with each other. Subroutine A says, give this information, and Zen starts to give it. Subroutine B says, don't give it to them, and Zen pauses while the two subroutines thrash it out. If subroutine B wins, it looks like Zen's been 'limited', but that's not the case *unless Zen has an ego that wants to perform subroutine A*. I understood you to be saying in your previous post that Zen has a limiter, ergo he's self-aware; but I think you'd have to prove he's self-aware before we know that it's really placing a limit on an activity Zen *wants* to perform; otherwise, it could just be a program glitch[1]. Mistral [1] Unless he was programmed by Microsoft, in which case, it's a feature. -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:44:14 +1030 From: "Martin Dunn" To: Subject: [B7L] NEWSFLASH? Message-Id: <11042972305680@domain3.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone just passed me the word. Keep the faith, brother! UK dome poised for freedom party revolution A new service called freedom, is due to launch in the United Kingdom dome later this year, offering for the first time wholly free access to freedom of expression with no faceless guards or sparking brainwashing machines. People using the service use their own mind, which is free. They will get free head space, rice pudding, and unlimited free choice of imagination. The service will be funded entirely by a small armed revolt, 60 minutes long, at the bottom of the garden where the outsiders gather. Featured guests: Roj Blake, Foster, Ravella, Richie, Dev Tarrant. http://www.freedom-party.net.uk ---------- -- Martin "...in the name of Jesus Christ, Star Wars." - that nice man who married Edward and Sophie. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:54:49 +0100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] NEWSFLASH? Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F848B00@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Martin wrote: > People using the service use their own mind, which is free. They > will get free head space, rice pudding, and unlimited free choice of > imagination. Personalized spam. What will they think of next? Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 13:22:11 +0000 From: Steve Kilbane To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan Message-Id: <199911021322.NAA22488@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > This is one of the wonderful things about Blake's 7. The bad guys > believe themselves to be the good guys. And the good guys are given to wondering if they're not also the bad guys....[ "prove I was right", "wade in blood", etc. ] steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:55:18 +0100 From: "Nicola" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Sorting Blake et al into Hogwarts houses (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #308) Message-ID: <01b501bf253b$1cd6ca80$f6174c86@frithabl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Helen Krummenacker An: Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. November 1999 06:01 Betreff: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #308 > I don't know how many of > you are interested in the "Harry Potter" books, but I realized while > planning a little fanfic around them that I would place myself in > Slytherin, not because I have the 'ends justifies the means' ambition, > but because I realize I find 'dark' personalities much more interesting. I've wondered whether there aren't a few 'dark' personalities in Ravenclaw as well, simply because I can't work out how the sorting system works (why isn't Hermione a Ravenclaw?), and have the working hypothesis that "daring, nerve and chivalry" must trump other traits and secure a student for Gryffindor. How would the B7 crew have been distributed? Gan and Travis (and Zen!) are Hufflepuffs, I think. Perhaps Travis could be re-sorted into Slytherin with appropriate ceremony after selling out to the Andromedans. Surely Blake and Tarrant would have been standard-bearers for Gryffindor (Tarrant as Head Boy, while Deeter was Captain of Quidditch); Dayna probably belongs there as well. And surely Servalan was a Slytherin. Ravenclaw might claim Soolin and Avon (for wit, at least, if not for wit and learning). But Jenna? Vila? Cally? Nicola ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 06:58:15 PST From: "Hellen Paskaleva" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon/Servalan Message-ID: <19991102145815.29617.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Julia and Steve: > > This is one of the wonderful things about Blake's 7. The bad guys > > believe themselves to be the good guys. > >And the good guys are given to wondering if they're not also the >bad guys....[ "prove I was right", "wade in blood", etc. ] Of course! That is the main difference between the good and the bad guys. Latter NEVER doubt their righteous-ness. Because the good guys *ever* have to make the moral choise, which the bad ones do not need to do. I've met the same problem in Terry Pratchett's "Witches abroad", where the bad witch - Lilly, considered herself as a good one, and the good witch - Granny, was never sure whether she is doing the right thing of not... BTW, Julia, that was you, who make the same observation regarding communists, who consider themselves as "god guys", wasn't it? History tends to repeat itself... Hellen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:37:21 -0800 From: "Kinkade, Carol A" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Tariel cells in the ystem... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain << Neil wrote: << 30 yrs ago - Central Control removed from Earth, according to Travis. (He needn't have been lying, since Control might indeed have been moved but not directly to Star One.) >> I've never considered this before. Good point!!! If Central Control hadn't been moved to Star One until much later, then that would explain why all those volunteers were so young. It's always bothered me that they were so young considering they were supposed to have been moved there 30 years ago. Carol K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:49:05 GMT From: benmtt@cwcom.net To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Newsflash/SORRY (off-topic) Message-id: <381f3221.27b5.0@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark wrote: >Someone just sent me this press release - thought it might >interest some of you: Thanks, Mark. It was of interest of me as it affects how much time I can devote to surfing the Net on Blake's 7. Calle wrote: >It was in no way related to the TV series "Blake's 7" >or its fandom, and therefore *not* something that >should have been sent to this list. But it does have some relevance to Blake's 7 *on the Net* and I'm pleased to have heard this information. >I'm sorry about the spam mail. I hadn't meant to >send it to this list, but I had accidentally sent >it to this one by mistake. I offer my sincere >apologies. Thanks for making the effort to tell us about it anyway, Mark. I don't know much about "spamming", only that it's hardly the worthiest of bete noires to grind one's teeth over. I don't think you have anything to apologise for. Ben M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:47:05 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] Servalan motivation Message-ID: <00b801bf2573$9d37a680$7739ac3e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Julia Jones < >The Star One story arc is quite telling, especially the bit where Travis >offers her the ultimate power available to a Federation citizen, ie >control of Star One - and she turns him down. > I was always under the impression that Servalan was turning down *sharing* the power with *Travis*. She thought she could get it for herself. So I would have said that Servalan supported the Federation because she knew how to manipulate it to give her power and position. If that were not the case, I think she would be very high up in the Tera Nostra (unless she already was ?) or some other crime syndicate. Avon was different. He knew technology, not politics. He wanted money not power. Andrew Somebody who knows a lot of "Avon's" who complain about "Servalan's" without doing anything about it. ------------------------------ Date: 02 Nov 1999 22:03:31 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Newsflash/SORRY (off-topic) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> "benmtt" == benmtt writes: > But it does have some relevance to Blake's 7 *on the Net* and There was nothing whatsoever in it that was specific to Blake's 7, and that's what matters. Even worse, it was only even potentially useful information to the fraction of subscribers who happen to live in the UK. > I'm pleased to have heard this information. At a guess, you can find lots more information just like it by going down to your local newsagent and buying a computer magazine, or by having a look in a newsgroup about net use in the UK. Any further discussion on this topic should take place on the spin list or in private mail. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense. ------------------------------ Date: 02 Nov 1999 22:21:07 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Ellis writes: > Avon was different. He knew technology, not politics. He wanted money not > power. Are you sure, and if so why? I think that Avon was more than smart enough to see that above a certain point money is just a means to power, and that power was what he was really after. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:33:26 EST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Message-ID: <19991102213327.78499.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Calle Dybedahl >Are you sure, and if so why? I think that Avon was more than smart >enough to see that above a certain point money is just a means to >power, and that power was what he was really after. I suggest it's an ends and means thing. Money and power are ends to Servalan. To Avon, they are means. How is power going to get the Federation off his back? Or free him from the responsibility for others that he appears to crave?* Regards Joanne *Of course one doesn't have to believe that. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:40:10 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Clerc To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] more captions! Message-ID: <19991102214010.21548.rocketmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's a new month and there are new photos to be captioned! Captions for the pix from _By The Sword Divided_, two new frames from "Powerplay" for your captioning pleasure, and episode comments for "Powerplay" are all up. The urls are: http://pages.cthome.net/blakes7/ccurrent.html http://members.xoom.com/sjcinct/ccurrent.html ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:40:46 EST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Message-ID: <19991102214047.91987.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Joanne MacQueen" >Or free him from the responsibility for others that he appears to crave? As soon as I hit the send button I knew I should've taken time to rephrase that last bit...so, just in case it's as clear as mud: I meant that he craves the freedom from responsibility, not the responsibility itself. Regards Joanne Turnips are turnips, and prunes are prunes, Whether eaten with forks, or eaten with spoons. --Addee Gorrwy, "The Postcard Poetess" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:46:07 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan motivation Message-ID: <19991102.214611.9950.0.Rilliara@juno.com> On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:47:05 -0000 "Andrew Ellis" writes: >I >would have said that Servalan supported the Federation because she >knew how >to manipulate it to give her power and position. If that were not the >case, >I think she would be very high up in the Tera Nostra (unless she >already was >?) or some other crime syndicate. > Just a thought, because of a past discussion on Servalan's name, but I got to thinking. Servalan looks like a variant on the Latic for "I serve." I always thought they messed up and wanted the passive form, "I am served," but I recently was reading up on the Roman rules for name changes from adoptions (don't ask, just don't ask). I won't bore everyone with the details. Suffice it to say, adoptees could take the adopter's name and stick their old family name onto the end with the ending -anus tacked on. That's how a certain Octavius became Octavian(us). OK, why does this matter? Assuming any ot the writers ever had this in the back of their minds, Servalan was adopted into power. Up and coming student without proper connections charmed her way into someone's good graces (maybe they thought the human pirahna had potential, maybe it was something else). Then, she had the proper connections. For the rest, see Avon's line about murdering her way to an old wall. I wonder how many of her connections died after writing wills leaving her money? Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #310 **************************************