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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 264
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort
Re: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort
Re: [B7L] Re [ B7L] Spacials
[B7L] Frame capture nominations
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Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:51:38 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort
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I'm new to the list (one day old).
Hi,
Please forgive me if anything I say is obvious, stupid, or covered before.
I'm sure you'll enjoy disagreeing with me.
You seem to be finishing a discussion on length scales, so here is my
contribution.
As regards distance and velocity measurements I have ALWAYS assumed that
they are logarithmic, so I agree with Judith.
A linear scale just can't cope with star ship, planetary system and
interstellar distances. In C20 we use km, AU's and Light Years respectively.
But in the "real world" of space travel, you can't be doing with three
systems of units where you transfer seamlessly between them, hence spacials.
A useful base scale might be a standard orbit.
Now, we have spatials, a logarithmic length scale, so velocity or speed
should be also be measured on a logarithmic scale. Consider simply doubling
the "speed" from the pedestrian Standard by 6 to the phenomenally self
destructive Standard by 12, (and Standard by 8 is considered faster than
anything the federation has, and is a good escape speed). On a linear scale
its just does not make sense. But, if we used a logarithmic scale, such as
the decibel scale, then in terms of linear velocity (km/hr), Standard by 9
is twice as fast as Standard by 6. But an interesting question, for the
mathematically minded is. Is standard speed given by
a) Log (distance travelled in lightyears) divided by time taken in seconds
= spatials per second
or
b) Log (distance in lightyears divided by time in seconds)
In (b) we have the natural measure of velocity reflecting some degree of
TIME DISTORTION, but (a) is more useful to the human brain, acustommed to
measuring time linearly.
What does everybody else think ?
Andrew Ellis
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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:03:21 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort
Message-ID: <19990908200321.A1724@welkin.apana.org.au>
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On Tue, Sep 07, 1999 at 09:51:38PM +0100, Andrew Ellis wrote:
>
> I'm new to the list (one day old).
Welcome.
> Please forgive me if anything I say is obvious, stupid, or covered before.
> I'm sure you'll enjoy disagreeing with me.
> Now, we have spatials, a logarithmic length scale, so velocity or speed
> should be also be measured on a logarithmic scale. Consider simply doubling
> the "speed" from the pedestrian Standard by 6 to the phenomenally self
> destructive Standard by 12, (and Standard by 8 is considered faster than
> anything the federation has, and is a good escape speed). On a linear scale
> its just does not make sense.
Maybe, maybe not. The crux of your argument really doesn't depend on
making sense or consistency with the usual Federation measurement
systems at all. It really depends on what Zen deduced from the
Terran word "by". Why do I say that? Well, if you cast your minds
back, mes amies, to Cygnus Alpha, where Blake and Jenna and Avon are
pottering around this alien ship, Zen is activated, and says "State
course and speed". Blake, having no idea what sort of speed this ship
is cabable of, intelligently hedges his bets by saying "Cygnus Alpha,
standard speed." All further speed requests are couched in these
terms: standard by 2, standard by 6, standard by 12. I always thought
that "by" meant "multiplied by" as it usually would in English, not
"to the power of" or the like.
Consider this: if "standard speed" is standard cruising speed, then
running around at even twice the cruising speed could be wearing on
the engines, and standard by 12 could actually *be* very
self-destructive. I mean, if you take a car that normally cruises at
100 kph and make it go at 1200 kph, it's not going to last very long.
Maybe mere multiplication is enough.
On the other hand, maybe it isn't a multiplication of the actual
speed, but of the time-distort factor. We do get the impression that
the standard FTL drives, both those of the Federation and the
Liberator, use "time-distort" in some way as part of their
functioning. That was why Dr. Plaxton's Photonic Drive was so radical
- it enabled one to go at time-distort speeds *in real time*.
I occassionally wondered what would happen if you put a photonic drive
and a time-distort drive in tandem; you'd get a phenomenal increase in
speed...
Or maybe they would just interfere with each other.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:03:06 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re [ B7L] Spacials
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steve quoted me:
>> On the contrary. The main thing you want to know in navigation or battle
is
>> 'how long subjectively until such and such an event'
>
>It doesn't work all the time, though. How do you clearly specify an orbit?
>In this case, you're specifying the result of a function, but not enough
>of the variables to resolve it.
>
>steve
>
You got the wrong person Steve. I mean steve :-)
I think it was Ellyne that suggested 'orbits'. My suggestion was to
calculate spacials from the three variables speed, distance and time
distortion. That would tell you 'how long until'
Given that nobody, least of all the writers, had a clue about what 'time
distort' was, I suggest one uses it freely to patch up all problems with
distances, speeds, times, and relative ageing of characters throughout all
four seasons.
Alison
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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:36:06 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: [B7L] Frame capture nominations
Message-Id: <4.1.19990908202504.00abad60@mail.dallas.net>
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Before long I am going to be starting on another batch of new frame
captures for my image library. I'll be adding five B7 episodes in this
group, which will bring the total in the library to 13 episodes.
I would like nominations from list members for which episodes to include.
If there are any you would especially like to see in the library, please
send me your choices -- offlist, so as not to clutter up the lists. (Send
to me at <lcw@dallas.net>.) I'll use the top five scorers, even if I think
they're icky.
You may nominate up to five episodes. I will be collecting votes up until
the time I start working on the captures, probably in a couple of weeks.
If you're not familiar with the frame capture library, you can find it at
<http://lcw.simplenet.com/b7lib.html>.
- Lisa
--
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
From Eroica With Love: http://eroica.simplenet.com/
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End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #264
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