From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #164 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/164 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 164 Today's Topics: [B7L] re Plan B Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way [B7L] Neutral Zone 2000 [B7L] Neutral Zone summer party Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:42:26 +0100 From: "Deborah Day" To: "blakes7" Subject: [B7L] re Plan B Message-ID: <001101be9e20$5e71a200$e386bc3e@oemcomputer> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE9E28.BF8FB7E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE9E28.BF8FB7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joanne wrote she was someone who doesn't drink (never been able to = persuade myself otherwise). Having been of a similiar persuasion, try homemade wine - a friend makes = elderflower or morello cherry wine which is both very sweet and very = strong - like a dessert wine. One bottle of either would send Vila = under the table no worries! Or you could try martini with lemonade. Regards, Debbie Day ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE9E28.BF8FB7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joanne wrote she was someone who = doesn't drink=20 (never been able to persuade myself otherwise).
 
Having been of a similiar = persuasion, try=20 homemade wine - a friend makes elderflower or morello cherry wine which = is both=20 very sweet and very strong - like a dessert wine.  One bottle of = either=20 would send Vila under the table no worries!  Or you could try = martini with=20 lemonade.
 
Regards,
Debbie = Day
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE9E28.BF8FB7E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:55:38 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu 13 May, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Role-Players certainly are concerned with character, but locate character > within the game milieu. A roleplayer running an elf, for example, will be > thinking more of elven psychology rather than magic resistance and archery > bonuses. This line of thinking will spill out into elven history, society, > economics, art etc - the player has to know about the game world in order to > understand his/er character. A Powergamer needn't be interested in any of > that stuff. I have to disagree with this. There are some people who are both power gamer and role player. I know, I used to moderate a commercial postal game that was aimed precisely at this niche. There were players who could work out their combat bonuses to the last fraction, but who would just as willingly get involved in minor sub-plot converning the finer points of Islamic Law which would gain them no game advantage what so ever. There were players who studied the game mythology in indredible depth, but these could also people who were heavily into politics and would backstab a neighbour at the drop of a hat. Perhaps the best analogy is to use real life. There are many people who aim for power in real life - this does not prevent them being deeply religious, having a major interest in dried flowers or simply enjoying flying a kite. IN terms of the Q-study I actualy felt the first two accounts were closer to the role player than the power gamer (if you insist on separating them). My feeling about an episode is that it is either in or out of character for my favourites. It doesn't matter particularly whether it shows them in a good or bad light, but they must be true to themselves. > > Agreed. Both the four-fold way of rolegaming and the Q accounts should be > used to describe preferences and inclinations, not to pigeonhole people. > For example, you listed Judith Proctor as an exemplifying sort for Acc2, but > I also know that she's very concerned with background and its coherence > within the context of the series - very Acc4, if you ask me. Why thank you . Spot on. (that's why I designed a game for both role gamer and power gamer because I am both myself) I'm struggling at the moment to try and understand Barry Letts' concept of hyperspace. I've got a feeling that the two radio plays aren't totally consistent as to how it's used, but I've mislaid my copy of the Syndeton Experiment and won't be able to check until I borrow one (I've been offered a copy). The radio series in terms of space travel at least cannot be reconciled with the TV series, but I may be able to consider it as a separate canon in my mind if I can get the background to be consistent. (I have to just pretend the worst gaffes in the Sevenfold Crown aren't there, but the Syndeton Experiment is a better production and if I decide to accept hyperspace then I might be able to do a story set within the 'radio' universe if I so wished.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:27:48 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Neutral Zone 2000 Message-ID: <7VgpNLAEATP3EwrW@jajones.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is the ASCII I lifted out of the Word document that Diana sent me when I asked for a registration form by email. The Word version looks a lot better - I'll email it off-list if anyone wants it and can't get hold of Diana. Email me directly, don't clutter up the list with requests for it. Has someone got webspace for it? REGISTRATION FORM Neutral Zone 2000 Sci-fi/multi media Convention March 24th - 26th 2000 Forte Posthouse Hotel, Newcastle YOUR DETAILS *Please print details* TITLE: MR / MRS / MISS / MS. SURNAME: FIRST NAME/S: ADDRESS: POST CODE: AGE (IF UNDER 18): Badge Name: Phone No: Please Also Register: REGISTRATION DETAILS (This is the only money you need to send now) Postal registrations closing date - March 20th 2000 ONE DAY £20 TWO DAYS £32 FULL WEEKEND £45 UNDER 14 HALF PRICE. UNDER 5 FREE. I / WE WISH TO REGISTER FOR THE FOLLOWING: FRI ?? SAT ???SUN ? ?Full Weekend ? TICK FOR INFORMATION ON THE FOLLOWING:- ART & MODEL COMP ? FANCY DRESS ? STEWARDS ? Please make cheques/postal orders payable to ‘Neutral Zone’ DO NOT send cash through the post Complete forms (please print), include the correct registration payment and enclose 3 sae's for receipt and updates Thank you. HOTEL DETAILS (Hotel Money paid directly to hotel during the event) Bed & Breakfast: Bookings taken till 13th March 2000 Single Room £42 Twin/Double £33 per person, per night PLEASE INDICATE THE TYPE OF ROOM YOU REQUIRE & FOR HOW MANY NIGHTS *Due to administration you must now book a minimum of 2 nights in the Forte hotel as we are unable to take Saturday only bookings* NIGHTS: THURS ? FRI ? SAT ? SUN ? ROOM TYPE: SINGLE ? TWIN ? DOUBLE ? FAMILY ? FAMILY ROOM - A TWIN ROOM FOR 2 ADULTS WITH A CHILD UNDER 12 STAYING FREE (childs meals must be paid for). ? Tick here if you would like us to find you a sharer in the event that no single rooms are available ? Tick here if you are a smoker. Pets are welcome - please send details with your registration form Please Note ~ There are plenty of local hotels if you wish to book your own accommodation. You do not have to stay at the Forte to attend the event. YOU CAN PAY YOUR REGISTRATION BY INSTALMENTS Send a deposit of £10 plus post dated cheques, which we will cash as they become valid. Postal Orders may also be sent at regular intervals ????? Our chosen charity is again?????? 'HEARING DOGS FOR THE DEAF' 'TINKER' sponsored after the 1998 event is now fully trained and working down in Somerset - he's a scruffy terrier who was also a rescue dog Let's see if we can raise enough to sponsor a millennium puppy :-) PLEASE ENCLOSE 3 S.A.E'S FOR YOUR UPDATES & RECEIPT - THANK YOU ~ ~ Contact Address ~ ~ For further information and to return your completed forms :- Diana Lawson 16 ANNANDALE, DARLINGTON, CO. DURHAM, DL1 3QX ........................................................................ ........................................................................ .............. Fax/Phone: 01325 284837 e-mail dlawson@Darlington.ac.uk -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:20:28 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Neutral Zone summer party Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's the text from the summer party flyer (with some info for the 2000 con as well). Gareth will be there unless he's working. Judith and I are taking a table in the dealers' room, which amongst other things will be a meeting point for the B7 fans. ~ Neutral Zone SUMMER PARTY 1999 ~ AUGUST 28th/29th & (up to lunch time Monday 30th) So - the third Summer Party is upon us again and still only £10 to register ~ what more do you want ~ just a little something to stave off those post-con blues we all suffer from, now and again. Starts 10am Saturday morning and ends Monday lunch timeish. Yes Monday!! As it’s falling on Bank Holiday this year. You can still pay on the door. 48+ hours of silliness, disco’s, sponsored dancing parties, the latest video’s, dealers, role playing games, a demonstration by a ‘B5 Ranger’ on how to play the customisable card game and a bar that stays open as long as we need it too!!!! Games Workshop may even drop in with their latest products and I am sure Gareth Thomas will invite himself - he usually does - we have to keep the bar bills high :-) **Please note there is one slight difference this year** YOU must BOOK your OWN accommodation at the Forte ~ 0191 232 6191 (or elsewhere). There is cheap accommodation at the Travel Inn, City Road (0191 - 232 6533) or University of Northumbria (0191 - 2274024) contact Rosalind Thom. Please make sure to book your own accommodation, if you need it. So get into the swing. If you fancy a laugh & a drink with old friends then you know where we are :-) Neutral Zone 2000 March 24th-26th 2000 Confirmed Guest - James Morrison ‘Space:Above & Beyond’ - ‘Prey’ Others to be announced We look forward to hearing from you, as we only run it for you. Have a great 1999 and hopefully see you in 2000. Send s.a.e to :- Diana Lawson NZ, 16 Annandale, Darlington, Co. Durham, DL1 3QX (e-mail) - dlawson@Darlington.ac.uk phone/fax - 01325 284837 Chosen Charity - Hearing Dogs for the Deaf -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:55:07 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way Message-ID: <000a01be9ee1$c6469fe0$744b8cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith wrote: +AD4APg- Role-Players certainly are concerned with character, but locate character +AD4APg- within the game milieu ... A Powergamer needn't be interested in any of +AD4APg- that stuff. +AD4- +AD4-I have to disagree with this. There are some people who are both power gamer +AD4-and role player. I know, I used to moderate a commercial postal game that was +AD4-aimed precisely at this niche. As I hope I managed to point out later in the same post, the two are not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible to be both, but in my experience players tend to be either one or the other (assuming they show any tendency either way). Also I think you might be slightly misinterpreting my idea of Powergamer - the power resides not within the game world, but within the game rules. The archetypal Powergamer character is the one with sixteen vorpal blades, an Armor Class of -20, 200 Hit Points at 7th Level, three pet pseudodragons and whines loudly when he (sic) only gets four attacks a round. The character who seeks political power within the game world is more likely to be run by a Roleplayer, someone to whom impressive game stats are a means to an end rather than an end in themselves. +AD4-IN terms of the Q-study I actualy felt the first two accounts were closer to the +AD4-role player than the power gamer (if you insist on separating them). My feeling +AD4-about an episode is that it is either in or out of character for my favourites. +AD4-It doesn't matter particularly whether it shows them in a good or bad light, but +AD4-they must be true to themselves. As I hope (again) I made clear, I don't think the four rolegamer types correspond directly with the four Q accounts. The first two rolegamer types are tied to the rules of the game, which has no direct analogue within the context of B7. The point is more that Acc1s/2s share a common understanding of how the series is viewed, analoguous to the common understanding (of the importance of rules) between Powergamers and Wargamers. +AD4APg-I'm struggling at the moment to +AD4-try and understand Barry Letts' concept of hyperspace. I've got a feeling that +AD4-the two radio plays aren't totally consistent as to how it's used, but I've +AD4-mislaid my copy of the Syndeton Experiment and won't be able to check until I +AD4-borrow one (I've been offered a copy). The radio series in terms of space +AD4-travel at least cannot be reconciled with the TV series, but I may be able to +AD4-consider it as a separate canon in my mind if I can get the background to be +AD4-consistent. (I have to just pretend the worst gaffes in the Sevenfold Crown +AD4-aren't there, but the Syndeton Experiment is a better production and if I decide +AD4-to accept hyperspace then I might be able to do a story set within the 'radio' +AD4-universe if I so wished.) There is reference to a hyperdrive in Spacefall, which gives some precedence for hyperspace in B7. The usual term of reference, though, appears to be 'subspace' (Seek-Locate-Destroy and Deliverance), though that was reserved for FTL communication rather than space travel. The Time Distort function was mentioned several times for FTL space travel, but no direct reference to 'distort space' or anything. Hyperspace is not actually refuted by the series. (Though I've not heard the radio plays, so they may give additional details that do contradict the TV canon.) One minor point of interest - some of the engagements between ships occur at FTL speeds (eg+ADs- Redemption, Hostage), so the Star Wars option of kicking in the hyperdrive to evade pursuit isn't necessarily there. The above, of course, only of interest to Acc3/4s, not Acc1s/2s :) Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 19:43:55 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Q-study/Four-fold way Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 15 May, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Judith wrote: +AD4-I have to disagree with this. There are some people who > are both power gamer +AD4-and role player. I know, I used to moderate a > commercial postal game that was +AD4-aimed precisely at this niche. > > As I hope I managed to point out later in the same post, the two are not > mutually exclusive. Ah, confusion of terms. What you call a power gamer, I call a rules-lawyer. My definition of power-games is someone who seeks power (especially in a game with 20 or more players) and will probably end up running a major alliance of players. > > +AD4APg-I'm struggling at the moment to > +AD4-try and understand Barry Letts' concept of hyperspace. I've got a feeling > that > +AD4-the two radio plays aren't totally consistent as to how it's used, but I've > +AD4-mislaid my copy of the Syndeton Experiment and won't be able to check until > I > +AD4-borrow one (I've been offered a copy). The radio series in terms of space > +AD4-travel at least cannot be reconciled with the TV series, but I may be able > to > +AD4-consider it as a separate canon in my mind if I can get the background to > be > +AD4-consistent. (I have to just pretend the worst gaffes in the Sevenfold Crown > +AD4-aren't there, but the Syndeton Experiment is a better production and if I > decide > +AD4-to accept hyperspace then I might be able to do a story set within the > 'radio' > +AD4-universe if I so wished.) > > There is reference to a hyperdrive in Spacefall, which gives some precedence > for hyperspace in B7. The usual term of reference, though, appears to be > 'subspace' (Seek-Locate-Destroy and Deliverance), though that was reserved > for FTL communication rather than space travel. The Time Distort function > was mentioned several times for FTL space travel, but no direct reference to > 'distort space' or anything. Hyperspace is not actually refuted by the > series. (Though I've not heard the radio plays, so they may give additional > details that do contradict the TV canon.) Letts' hyperdrive is radically different. eg. Ships in hyperspace are invisible to one another (if I recall correctly). This doesn't mesh in with space battles taking place at TD 12 in episodes like Hostage. If you listen to the two plays, you'll pick up other points of difference. eg. In the first play Avon shakes off pursuit by dropping into hyperspace for 2 nanoseconds. The cruiser follws him into hyperspace (though I'm not sure why as the second play seems to imply that they wouldn't be able to follow him once in hyperspace in any case) and because cruisers are so big that it takes many seconds for them to fall in and out of hyperspace, they overshoot Scorpio by a couple of solar systems. This doesn't feel like the TV series at all. > > One minor point of interest - some of the engagements between ships occur at > FTL speeds (eg+ADs- Redemption, Hostage), so the Star Wars option of kicking in > the hyperdrive to evade pursuit isn't necessarily there. Exactly! (Which is why I tend to grip about Barry Letts not knowing the series) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight) -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #164 **************************************