From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #84 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/84 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 84 Today's Topics: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Re: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. [B7L] re josette simon Re: [B7L] epitaphs Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. [B7L] Awwww... Avon ;-) Re: [B7L] epitaphs [B7L] Glynis Barber Re: [B7L] epitaphs [B7L] epitaphs (silly) [B7L] A/T web site updated Re: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature Re: [B7L] epitaphs (silly) Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Re: [B7L] epitaphs Re: [B7L] epitaphs [B7L] Re: B7 Dreams Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 1998 10:05:57 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature Message-ID: >>I wrote: >>The way he was concerned about Dayna and Tarrant when he tried >>to convince Avon to leave them behind in "Traitor"? The way he >>was concerned about Avon, Blake, and Calley in "Star One" when >>he tried to convince Jenna to run, and leave them behind. >Lindley wrote: > Uh oh... > How *could* you say that about my baby? Awwww...love is truly blind. ;) >All I can say is that I don't for one minute believe that Vila >seriously meant to abandon them. You notice he didn't actually >*do* it, just whined that they should. Normal venting, I'd say. Uh...I doubt Vila could have overpowered either Avon or Jenna and taken off as he wanted to. He didn't *do* it because he didn't have control of the ship. >>Except, of course, for Avon -- who is totally misunderstood and >>really has a caring heart of gold and a genuine love of humankind >>(snip) > but...but...I'm serious. *snif* Isn't this how everyone sees Avon? Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: 16 Mar 1998 10:42:55 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: >Helen Krummenacker wrote: >I think he understands the charcter from the _inside_. That is, >when he gets into Avon mode, he acts as Avon. Definitely. He acts as the Avon *he* sees. But what he *thinks* he's doing IS NOT what most fans see on the screen. I am by no means saying this as a criticism of Paul Darrow. I absolutely adore Paul Darrow. He could do *anything* and I'd watch. He could read the dictionary and I'd sit at his feet enraptured of every word. >But as for specifics about what the individuals find attractive, >it varies. I admire Avon for his incredible will-power, Agreed!!! >and his protective attitude towards those around him. Ah! But there you differ from Paul's opinon of Avon. I've watched him in several interviews discuss how Avon would have sacrificed any member of the crew at any time if it were to his advantage. He told a story about filming one ep where the director had a fed guard grab Soolin and put her between Avon and him, making it impossible for Avon to fire. Paul said he told the director that that would not have stopped Avon from firing. He would have shot right thru Soolin if necessary. So the scene was changed so that Soolin was not at risk. I only mention this as an expample of how Paul's Avon differs from the Avon the fans see. I agree with you, however. I see Avon as actually very caring about his crew, just not able (willing) to show it. >I also feel I understand him better than most people. Another >person wil say "black leather and mystery". To me he isn't very >mysterious. Of course you do. He's your Avon. I feel *I* understand Avon very well. But that's MY Avon. We all see him differently. Although, from what I've read of your posts, I think you and I pretty much agree on what Avon is like. ;) >So, how can Paul know why women are attracted, when they all >have different and personal reasons for the attraction? Sorry...I didn't intend to imply that I thought he should know. I agree, it's difficult to define why one human finds another human attractive. Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:12:56 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: <19980316.140715.2391.3.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> >>>I just got Sevenfold Crown yesterday and was listening to the interviews afterwards and it occured to me that Paul Darrow doesn't really understand Avon's background and motivations. (See also his book). This seems to me a bit odd, as one would think an actor would have a fairly firm grip on his charecter's motivations. Well, maybe it's just my interpretation of things. It's late. Reuben reuben@reuben.net http://www.reuben.net/blake/ >>>> I totally agree, Rueben. He comes at it from the attitude (in his book, at least) that Avon was made this way by society, his mother, etc. I am of the shcool that you are made by many influences, but there comes a time when you grow up and decide you are responsible for your own actions. You break the cycle. I have, many others have, too. I personally feel Avon is so terrified of his own feelings he pushes people away so that he can be safe...the I am a rock, I am an island theory. I have seen people act that way, when what they really want is the opposite of their behaviour. Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:52:51 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Kinkade.Carol" CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature Message-ID: <350DD774.6811@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Except, of course, for Avon -- who is totally misunderstood and >>really has a caring heart of gold and a genuine love of humankind >>(snip) > but...but...I'm serious. *snif* Isn't this how everyone sees Avon? Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) Only us very perceptive people... and let it be noted, _I_ think he would hesitate to sacrifice himself-- accept a 5% chance-of-survival-risk, yes, sacrifice... ehhn. But heart of gold, yes! (Don't tell Vila, or he'll try to steal it). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:30:15 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: <350DE037.43D0@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I totally agree, Rueben. He comes at it from the attitude (in his book, > at least) that Avon was made this way by society, his mother, etc. I am > of the shcool that you are made by many influences, but there comes a > time when you grow up and decide you are responsible for your own > actions. You break the cycle. I have, many others have, too. I > personally feel Avon is so terrified of his own feelings he pushes people > away so that he can be safe...the I am a rock, I am an island theory. I > have seen people act that way, when what they really want is the opposite > of their behaviour. > This song (another by Paul Simon, who did I am a rock) makes me think of Avon, and what you said... "When some thing goes wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, The first to admit it, and the last one to now. When something goes right, well, it's liable to lose me, It's apt to confuse me because it's such an unusual sight. I can't get over something so right. They've got a wall in China, a thousand miles long. To keep out the foreigners they made it strong. And I've got a wall around me, that you can't even see. It takes a little time to get next to me. Some people never say the words "I love you". It's not their style to be so bold. Some people never say the words "I love you." But like a child, they're longing to be told. ... It took a little time, to get next to me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:35:32 -0800 From: Katrina Plant To: blakes 7 list Subject: [B7L] re josette simon Message-ID: <350F24E4.6E46@rpi.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i saw josette simon in an episode of 'kavanagh qc'last night and she was very good, she looks great too. anyone else see this? what did you think? regards kp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:54:50 -0700 From: Tonya Fallis To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] epitaphs Message-ID: <350E2C4A.9C5D447D@enmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Neath this clay he lies stone dead, Our poor thief murdered by the Fed, But isn't quite so miffed, methinks, So long as Heaven's full of drinks. R.I.P Vila Restal -Tonya ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:02:55 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: In message , "Kinkade.Carol" writes >>Helen Krummenacker wrote: > >>and his protective attitude towards those around him. > >Ah! But there you differ from Paul's opinon of Avon. I've watched him in >several interviews discuss how Avon would have sacrificed any member of the crew >at any time if it were to his advantage. He told a story about filming one ep >where the director had a fed guard grab Soolin and put her between Avon and him, >making it impossible for Avon to fire. Paul said he told the director that that >would not have stopped Avon from firing. He would have shot right thru Soolin >if necessary. So the scene was changed so that Soolin was not at risk. I only >mention this as an expample of how Paul's Avon differs from the Avon the fans >see. I agree with you, however. I see Avon as actually very caring about his >crew, just not able (willing) to show it. _Warlord_, when they're wandering around realising that Zukan's tricked them. Having seen one version of this story as told by Paul - yes, I agree with him, Avon would have shot anyway. Because Avon, when faced with a "one dies/both die" choice, chooses the "one dies", even in a situation where the socially acceptable norm is to heroically sacrifice yourself as well. Dr Plaxton's death is a particularly strong example, because the immediate response of most people to the situation is that it's wrong to kill her. If you analyse it unemotionally - would it have been more moral to have not started the engines, resulting in the death of Dr Plaxton *and* everyone else? This type of ruthlessness isn't the same thing as sacrificing anyone for your own advantage, which seems to be where you get the split between Paul's perception of Avon (or at least his description of that perception) and the fans. I can still remember the first time I watched _Orbit_. When Orac did his impersonation of an 'I speak your weight' machine, I had absolutely no doubt that Avon would save himself at Vila's expense - but I was not surprised that he didn't think of it himself. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:30:45 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Awwww... Avon ;-) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980317203045.007b9570@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No plans on writing any fan stories at all after my recent efforts. I have too many other projects on the go. If in future years I ever write any more Phoenix I'd just incorporate the info in somewhere... So, if someone wants to go all angsty and give it a go - good luck! Watch this space for information on the almost completed Phoenix 4! (Wherein I absolve myself with the Tarrant Nostra and feed sick fannish habits of hero-bashing) heh heh heh Narrelle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:06:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] epitaphs Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Tonya Fallis wrote: > 'Neath this clay he lies stone dead, > Our poor thief murdered by the Fed, > But isn't quite so miffed, methinks, > So long as Heaven's full of drinks. > > R.I.P > > Vila Restal > Best one yet, I reckon. I can just see Vila at the pearly gates: "Water into wine, eh? You know, I could get to like this place." Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:27:29 EST From: ShilLance To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Glynis Barber Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Referring to the recent post about Josette Simon, I saw Glynis barber (Soolin) on an old episode of Monsters here in the States. Has anyone else seen this? Gwynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:28:08 -0700 From: Tonya Fallis To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] epitaphs Message-ID: <350E7A68.84E0A09D@enmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hair and heart of lacquer-black, She won and lost an empire grand, Now crushed beneath Time's callous track-- A woman's but a grain of sand. R.I.P. Servalan -Tonya (feeling particularly maudlin right now...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:40:12 -0700 From: Tonya Fallis To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] epitaphs (silly) Message-ID: <350E7D3B.94EC3D97@enmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit She's Terminal, He's blown to bits. The deaths of both 'em gave me fits. How sad they never boinked on-telly To turn C/A fans to jelly. R. I. P. Cally & Avon -Tonya ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:48:44 EST From: Mac4781 To: space-city@world.std.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] A/T web site updated Message-ID: <1f54fc30.350e8d4e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's a new story addition to the A/T web site, uploaded just last evening:  "Strange Interlude," by Cami (Revised and expanded version of a story orginally published in Aquatar #2) (A/T) For those of you not familiar with site, here's a list of other fanfiction available there: "Warlord Epilogue," by Julia Henry (A/T) "A Marketable Commodity," by Pat Jacquerie (originally published in Dark Fantasies #4). Available in two versions: HTML, with art, (recommended for fast connections only), or in plain text. (A/T) "Null G," by Cody Nelson (A/T) "Engagement," by Trinity Pawling (originally published in Dark Fantasies #3) (A/T) "Blood and Shadows," by Salome (originally published in Dark Fantasies #2) Warning! Graphic violence! (A/T) "Binding Forces," by Miranie. Sequel to "Lovers & Other Fools." (V/T) "The End of the Rainbow," by Cami. First published in The Big B7 Zine. (V/T) "Lovers and Other Fools," by Miranie. First published in Aquatar #2 (V/T) The site owner would like to include more Tarrant slash. If anyone has a stray Tarrant story available, contact her at the web site or I can put you in touch with her. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:02:30 -0600 From: "Reuben Herfindahl" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature Message-ID: <002c01bd51b5$b594f310$660114ac@misnt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Helen Krummenacker To: Kinkade.Carol Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's accepting nature > But heart of gold, yes! >(Don't tell Vila, or he'll try to steal it). Either him or Zaphod.... Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:26:18 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] epitaphs (silly) Message-ID: <350E961A.743F@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You know, all these epitaphs would make _great_ filler in a fanzine, (she hinted loudly). Tonya's are terrific, and in anyone wants to use the ones I wrote, they have my blessing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:34:48 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: <350E9818.5836@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > > In message , "Kinkade.Carol" > writes > >>Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > > > >>and his protective attitude towards those around him. > > > >Ah! But there you differ from Paul's opinon of Avon. I've watched him in > >several interviews discuss how Avon would have sacrificed any member of the crew > >at any time if it were to his advantage. He told a story about filming one ep > >where the director had a fed guard grab Soolin and put her between Avon and him, > >making it impossible for Avon to fire. Paul said he told the director that that > >would not have stopped Avon from firing. He would have shot right thru Soolin > >if necessary. So the scene was changed so that Soolin was not at risk. I only > >mention this as an expample of how Paul's Avon differs from the Avon the fans > >see. I agree with you, however. I see Avon as actually very caring about his > >crew, just not able (willing) to show it. > > _Warlord_, when they're wandering around realising that Zukan's tricked > them. Having seen one version of this story as told by Paul - yes, I > agree with him, Avon would have shot anyway. Because Avon, when faced > with a "one dies/both die" choice, chooses the "one dies", even in a > situation where the socially acceptable norm is to heroically sacrifice > yourself as well. Dr Plaxton's death is a particularly strong example, > because the immediate response of most people to the situation is that > it's wrong to kill her. If you analyse it unemotionally - would it have > been more moral to have not started the engines, resulting in the death > of Dr Plaxton *and* everyone else? This type of ruthlessness isn't the > same thing as sacrificing anyone for your own advantage, which seems to > be where you get the split between Paul's perception of Avon (or at > least his description of that perception) and the fans. > > I can still remember the first time I watched _Orbit_. When Orac did his > impersonation of an 'I speak your weight' machine, I had absolutely no > doubt that Avon would save himself at Vila's expense - but I was not > surprised that he didn't think of it himself. > -- > Julia Jones I always admired Avon's ability to make that hard choice. Most people would, I think, have waited too long and gotten everyone killed. I would actually rather knnow my death saved the others than have my friends die with me. _orbit_ wasmore difficult, because it was 1/1, the balance of lives depended solely on your point of view, not numerical calculation. I think Avon was _very_ uncomfortable with that choice. Others have referred to his using his best "Come out so I can shoot you" voice. I think he was compartmentalizing his mind because part of him couldn't deal with what he was going to do... and because of that, he sounded horribly unnatural. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:35:18 -0700 From: Sven-Erik Geddes To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] epitaphs Re: [B7L] epitaphs Message-ID: <350E8A25.5091@sirius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here lies Tarrant, all teeth and curls, I don't miss him, but do the girls? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:42:35 -0700 From: Tonya Fallis To: "Blake's 7 Lysator List" Subject: [B7L] Re: B7 Dreams Message-ID: <350E99EA.9D4D69CD@enmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen Krummenacker wrote: > A giant of a soul, a giant of a man. > What a great line! I never missed Gan much, but that's a great sum of him > and omigod, I just realized, about a year ago, I dreamed I was writing > up these epitaphs. Way before I'd gotten an Internet connect. Very > wierd. Those last words sounded so familiar, they triggered the memory. This reminds me of a question I meant to ask this group months ago: Has anyone ever had any B7 dreams, and if so, what were they like? (No, I don't mean *those* kind of dreams, you perverts--get those naughty thoughts out your your heads!) My personal little PGP scenario comes almost entirely from a very detailed dream I had about eight years ago, not too long after I'd seen most of the series for the first time. It was a very consistent, well-fleshed plotline, much like watching a movie or reading a book except, of course, it ended mid-stream. I call these "plot" dreams and I have them at varying degrees of detail every month or three, usually involving fictional characters of some show or book that I like. Anyone else ever have "plot" dreams for B7? Or weird disjointed dreams with the characters? Or just plain ol' falling-through-the-air-sex dreams (sorry guys, that may be strictly a girl thing)? Just wondered. I have most of my "plot" dreams, including my B7 ones, written down in some form. One of these days maybe I'll actually disseminate it. Until then I stick with bad poetry. :) -Tonya P.S. I haven't had any activity from Space-City in days. Anyone know what's going on with that list? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:55:48 EST From: DCsquared To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow just doesn't get it. Message-ID: <37ab6ee7.350ec736@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-17 03:04:17 EST, you write: << Because Avon, when faced with a "one dies/both die" choice, chooses the "one dies", even in a situation where the socially acceptable norm is to heroically sacrifice yourself as well. Dr Plaxton's death is a particularly strong example, because the immediate response of most people to the situation is that it's wrong to kill her. If you analyse it unemotionally - would it have been more moral to have not started the engines, resulting in the death of Dr Plaxton *and* everyone else? >> After watching orbit with my Dad (who is one of the most moral guys I know) I asked him what he thought about Avon's behavior. He was not appalled at all. He said that in that situation, he himself would have sacrificed either himself or the other crew member, in order that one of them would survive. He would base the decision on which of the two would be best able to carry on the struggle against the federation, and which would be of the greatest value to the remaining crewmembers. He agreed with Avon's decision. Of course, I really think my Dad (slight hero worship here) is actually capable of deciding impartially, and actually jumping out the airlock himself if he thought that was best. I don't know about Avon. I said it might be pretty hard to make that determination in the heat of the moment. Dad said the decision might not be as hard as you'd think if you were REALLY sure that you were going to die anyone if you didn't do something. I also think it says something about Avon that he didn't think of it himself, but when smacked in the face with the option, couldn't do other than what he did. Donna Chlouber -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #84 *************************************