From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #58 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/58 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 58 Today's Topics: [B7L] Re: safety [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Re: [B7L] Grandstanding Re: [B7L] Sarkoff & Tyce; Anna & Del Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's body count Re: [B7L] Re: safety [B7L] Dr. Luv Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Re: [B7L] Re: safety Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test [B7L] My Keirsey character sorter score. Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test [B7L] Grandstanding [B7L] Re: Families Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:27:15 -0500 (EST) From: brent@ntr.net To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: safety Message-Id: <199802230127.UAA10046@rome.ntr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carol wrote: >I don't think either Avon or Vila could honestly be called loyal crewman. >Both of them will just about always put their own interests first. Why didn't Vila take a way out of the crew in City at the Edge of the World? By the time of Orbit, I feel it was well-established that Avon's crew were all loyal, despite their bickering (only Soolin is questionable and only because she was the newest addition) and individualistic posturing. Being in that crew was very dangerous, no matter who led it, yet no one left for greener, safer pastures. Whether this was loyalty or habit or something else could be debated, but I think it was loyalty. >However, Avon could rationalise his behaviour easily. He, not Vila, could >best organise the new Alliance he was trying to build. He could attract the >planetary leaders and threaten, bluff whatever it took, them into joining. >Vila could not, therefore, on that one reason alone, Avon deserved to live >over Vila. No one is claming Avon's judgement was the correct one from a >moral stance. But by following Avon's rationale , it was the equitable way >to go. That type of thinking is what got all of those lower class people locked down below on the sinking Titanic. Not enough lifeboats to go around so the ones with the most to offer society get to live. Gotta love equity. >According to Egrorian, the shuttle was coming down in a soft damp area if I >remember correctly. Also, didn't he tell Servalan that Orac would survive >crash and only be a little dented? Then by the time the shuttle and altered its angle >of ascent high enough for the shuttle to burn up enough to destroy Orac, Avon had >solved the problem. It was going to land in the marsh before Avon got smart and lightened the load, thus altering the altitude of the ship. Egrorian's careful calculations didn't plan for that contingency, so unless the marshes were spread over a large area, the shuttle's altered trajectory would have caused it to miss the marsh. By the time they reached the point where Avon decided to shove Vila out, they were above the atmosphere. If Orac had been shoved out the airlock, it would have burned up on re-entry. I base this idea on the fact that when Avon returns to the cockpit to guide the shuttle out of the planet's gravitational pull, stars can be seen through the viewer, indicating they were in space, but not away from the planet's pull. What was Orac's weight anyway? Five to ten kilos? The chair? Other things that could be blasted apart with that gun? As soon as Orac mentioned Vila's weight, Avon stopped thinking of other options. Until he luckily tripped over the solution. Brent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:54:36 -0800 From: Tramila To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222175436.006eb3c8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that there is not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.) Is this is the reason that when I ducked and ran in the other post, the 'I' in Jacquelyn Taylor grabbed on and wanted to play anyway. (Three days since that post and I am still quivering in fear. I'm just got up for these deep 'I' discussions. Lurkdom rules in this case.) Oh and BTW. I am here to stand up for Vila. Tramila Chapter Member and Pres of VICE Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:55:48 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Grandstanding Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222175548.006f1864@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tramila wrote: >>And yes. I agree. It was unnecessary to risk Vila's life to do a >>little grandstanding but unfortunately that was what Blake did best. >>Grandstand. > >> >>Time to go back into lurkdom. Jackie wrote: >Not so fast. You know more about the subject of Blake's grandstanding >than anyone else. Do, please, enlighten us. I've been looking forward to >another tedious round about Central Control and Star One. Ekk! Why do you say that I know more? I don't. I was just thinking about Central Control and in general, Blake's "I'm in charge and I am a God" stance while he commanded the Liberator. Take pity on this poor ESFJ. She's very like Vila. Tramila takes her bottle of Soma and joins Vila on the Liberator couch to sleep the day away in idle, unfocussed activity. Tramila ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:48:58 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sarkoff & Tyce; Anna & Del Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222203726.00c3f264@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sondra Sweigman wrote: >It's interesting that everyone who's spoken up on this subject says >they took Tyce for Sarkoff's daughter from the start. I'd be >suspicious that part of that was attributable to "already knowing" >before seeing the episode (ie, from other fans) Speaking for myself, at the time I first saw this episode I was not acquainted with any other fans who had ever seen the series. The only other person I knew who watched it was my cube-mate at work, and it was as new to him as it was to me. The only connection between Sarkoff & Tyce which occurred to me other than father-daughter was of her as a "companion" a la Doctor Who. Sarkoff's crotchetiness and eccentricity were also highly reminiscent of the Doctor. Of course, the similarities are not surprising and probably not coincidental, given who wrote the episode. >Third (and for me, this was the clincher), *Tarvin* takes them for >lovers: I would say that tells us something about Tarvin, but not necessarily about how *we* were meant to see Sarkoff and Tyce. -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:49:00 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's body count Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222204427.00b01eb8@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Helen Krummenacker wrote: >Before I absolutely loose my mind over this whole personality thing, >will someone please give me a run down or tell me where to find how this >classification thing works? For anyone else who missed it before, here are some good web sites for investigating the Myers-Briggs system: http://keirsey.com/ : Keirsey's own site, with two of his tests for determining type and quite a bit of background information. http://www.enteract.com/~jwalz/Jung/mbti.html : Another online version of the Keirsey Temperament Sorter test. (This one, and any others except at keirsey.com, is an unauthorized copy. The thing has proliferated all over the net, about which Keirsey is evidently a bit peeved, but it was probably inevitable.) http://sacam.oren.ortn.edu/~jabutt/profiles/profiles.html : A collection of type profiles compiled by various online contributors. http://www.worklife.com/faq-mbti.html : A brief summary of the Myers-Briggs system. -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:39:53 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety Message-ID: <34F0E179.29BB@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit brent@ntr.net wrote: ... > Really, I suppose I should have known that attacking Avon's character (moral > fabric, not the character himself) would have raised the ire of his > champions, ... Better not! When aroused, an Avon champion tends to raise and wag an alarmingly red A.S.S. in the air. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:59:24 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Dr. Luv Message-ID: <34F0E60C.584@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, that Dr. Luv knows his stuff. He was remarkably right on for me! 91% Avon (YESS!) 86% Soolin (my Golden Goddess) 81% Vila 71% Servalan 67% Blake 54% Gan 47% Travis 13% Dayna (she'd get on my nerves darn quick) But... but... Xena only ranked 26% !!! oh well, I'd be dead in a week. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:13:57 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222211243.009e9120@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tramila wrote: >I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that >there is not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans >are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.) Could be, although it might go as much by temperament types as by I-E classification. Cyberspace in general is crawling with INTs, because although they form a very small percentage of the general population, they often gravitate to techie fields and hence to an online presence. Vila's a classic ESFP. Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would *like* Vila. I'm an INTJ (very), I don't like Vila, and I think Keirsey is full of beans on that point. Actually, the characters I like seem to come from a wide range of types, but liking a fictional character doesn't necessarily mean I'd want to be around him in real life. There are a couple of uptight SJs in other fandoms whom I'm very fond of, but I wouldn't want to have to deal with either of them up close on a daily basis. There are several SPs who might be fun to hang out with, though I don't think I would get seriously attached to them, and there are a few NFs whose intriguing qualities equal or outweigh their irritating ones. (I find just about all NFs irritating, but some of them fascinate me too.) However, the characters I feel a stong affinity with generally turn out to be my fellow NTs. (Mind you, while I don't like Vila, I don't dislike him nearly as much as I do Cally, an NF who is all annoying and not fascinating at all as far as I'm concerned.) -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:43:01 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Tramila CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Message-ID: <34F0F045.7A1C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person, but very open and caring. :^) Avona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:46:15 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: pussnboots@geocities.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: safety Message-ID: <34F0F107.F1C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > > brent@ntr.net wrote: > ... > > Really, I suppose I should have known that attacking Avon's character (moral > > fabric, not the character himself) would have raised the ire of his > > champions, > ... > Better not! When aroused, an Avon champion tends to raise and wag an > alarmingly red A.S.S. in the air. > > Pat P I absolutely refuse the A.S.S. acronym. I am an Avon's Angel (what Paul said the show's name should've been changed to after Gareth left). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:21:12 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Meyers Test Message-ID: <34F0EB28.6F97@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tramila wrote: > ... Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's > category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)... I'm just not up for > these deep 'I' discussions... > > because she is truly scared.> Don't believe a word of this, folks. Crowds silently part to let Tramila pass when she is in full con costume. Battle-scarred warriors step aside; acid-drooling aliens skitter to the sidewalls. you get the picture. > Chapter Member and Pres of VICE > Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element V.I.C.E. I like it! Move over, B.I.T.C.H. Shove it aside, A.S.S., Roll up your turf, Tarrant Nostra, there's a new kid on the block and he's packing a full bottle of soma. Panicked Pat P P.S. Don't you mean Vila's Instantly Corruptible Element? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Lisa Williams CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F0F336.5540@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Vila's a classic ESFP. > > Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar > opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would > *like* Vila. Hmm, I'm an Avon fan who took an immediate liking to Tramila, self-proclaimed Vila-type. I've gotta take this tesst soon and see what I am. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:50:49 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <3a65269d.34f0f21c@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila? He's only a shadow's breath from being my favorite character, but I wouldn't want to break out of my type..... Deborah Rose " Einstein? Marie Curie? Me? Go Awaaaaayyyy..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:12:12 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] My Keirsey character sorter score. Message-ID: <34F0F71C.D95@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone's curious, I just took the short version of the test. I have an I score of 9/10, and a J of 5/10 It classified me as Rational:NT, with a variant of INTJ. But it scored me NT=31 NF=39 SJ=46 SP=40 Some of the questions were very hard to make a decision on. I might take it on another night to see if the scor changes. By the way. I intend to quit my office job and run an art gallery with my husband where we will sell our own creations. Does that sound like an INTJ type? The graph representation gave me an artist score of four, behind an idealist score of 5 and a rational score of 6. Guardian scored at 3. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:17:04 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tramila wrote: > >>I've been told that the list is full of INTJ's and INTP's but that >>there is not a huge Vila following. Could it be that the Vila fans >>are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.) Perhaps the Vila fans keep quiet ;) I've taken the test at keirsey.com several times, and have come out as ISTJ, ISFJ and INTJ on different occasions. Unequivocally I (generally 100%), pretty much a fence sitter on S/N and T/F (slightly to one side or other of 50%). I guess this may be related to mood at the time :). Anyway, I'd rate myself as a Vila fan - he's certainly near the top of the list, along with a certain computer tech. And for different reasons. Hmm, maybe I'm just a natural fence-sitter. (ouchie!) Lisa said: >I'm an INTJ (very), I don't like Vila, and I think Keirsey is full of beans >on that point. I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish? (for those who are interested, "full of beans" to me means lively and exuberant). >Actually, the characters I like seem to come from a wide >range of types, but liking a fictional character doesn't necessarily mean >I'd want to be around him in real life. Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd love to take Vila out for a beer. >(Mind you, while I don't like Vila, I don't dislike him nearly as much as I >do Cally, an NF who is all annoying and not fascinating at all as far as >I'm concerned.) I do like Cally, too - I've always been intrigued by unusual powers in a person. I have a range of fantasy daydreams, including being a telepath, a large feline (eg the Hani, for those who've read CJ Cherryh's Chanur series) or a dragon. I'm just waiting for the opportunity to try these out in a role-playing game. ttfn, Nicola (prattling again) --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:50:57 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Nicola Collie CC: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F10031.15FF@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust > after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd > love to take Vila out for a beer. I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters, and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably decide he was a lech and get disgusted. The only one I'm sure I'd like is Cally; next to her Dayna and Avon. (I like to think I could get Avon to relax a little and be more expressive.) I like Dayna because there's no pretense in her. If she liked me okay, we'd be giggling away in minutes. Cally is the one I think I am most actually like, even if I scored in the same catagory as Avon. I'm very empathic... I just didn't test that way. Is it how the questions are phrased, or the state of mind I went in with? I'm also not exactly acting reserved right now. I don't lust after Avon, oddly enough. I think he'd be horrible to be in love with, because he'd always be pushing me away. Because I am reserved, I _need_ to feel the other person is crazy about me in order to loosen up. But I'd like to help him realize _other_ aspects of his personality, be a person he could trust, and put some balance in that man's extreme life. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:51:08 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222223140.006a0bd8@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" AChevron@aol.com wrote: >Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for >whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila? He's only a shadow's >breath from being my favorite character, but I wouldn't want to break >out of my type..... I think you're allowed. Can't say much for your taste, of course... (I would peg Avon as a probable INTP. A case could be made for his being INTJ, but I think at heart he's an INTP who tries to pass himself off as an INTJ. The two types are very similar, anyhow.) -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:58:58 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I said: >> Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), while I lust >> after Avon from afar, I don't think I'd like to be around him IRL. I'd >> love to take Vila out for a beer. and Helen replied: >I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters, >and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably >decide he was a lech and get disgusted. *chuckle* seems a likely scenario. Although I'd probably get sick of his putting himself down all the time. Does anyone else suspect this sort of behaviour is fishing for a compliment? or alternatively a form of self-preservation. I guess it would depend on the situation - whether he's socialising with a pretty lady, or faced with being volunteered for a dangerous mission. [snippage] >I'm also not exactly acting reserved right now. Yeah, I tend to be more out-going with strangers on-line than in person. Y'all shoulda seen how I used to behave in my MUD/MOO days! :) But I actually think of myself as pretty reserved. >I don't lust after Avon, oddly enough. I think he'd be horrible to be in >love with, because he'd always be pushing me away. Because I am >reserved, I _need_ to feel the other person is crazy about me in order >to loosen up. But I'd like to help him realize _other_ aspects of his >personality, be a person he could trust, and put some balance in that >man's extreme life. I find it hard to define why I find Avon attractive - and I think this subject has been done to death on several occasions. (Doesn't mean we can't raise it again, imo ;).) All I know is, I hear that voice, or catch a certain facial expression, and Intellect and Reason get hauled out into an alley, beaten and left for dead by the Gland Gang. ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:15:21 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: brent@ntr.net CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon vs. Blake Message-ID: <34F105EA.5E42@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > AVON: "Is it true?" > BLAKE: "Avon, it's me, Blake." > AVON: "Stand still." > > Blake momentarily stops moving. > > AVON: "Have you betrayed us? Have you betrayed me?" > > During the next exchange, Blake underestimates the danger he is in and > starts walking toward Avon. > > BLAKE: "Tarrant doesn't understand. I set all of this up. Avon, I was > waiting for you." > > Bang, bang, bang. I think a "Yes" or "No" question is best answered "No," before any further explanation is given. Especially when you're pressed for time because someone called security. Just a thought about not running into a hole in the ground, doing your research first... your ship has crashed, the planet has ground troops and bountyhunters looking for you. A hole in the ground with a supposed friend would be the safest place to go... assuming your other friend doesn't bolt out while you're bolting in and tell you you've been betrayed. Oh, right; Avon should let himself be killed and give himself a moral victory, just like in Orbit. I keep forgetting what Avon should do. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:25:10 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Nicola Collie CC: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F10836.6319@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I tested as an INTJ and I consider Vila one of my favorite characters, > >and one of the few I might like in real life, although I would proabably > >decide he was a lech and get disgusted. > > *chuckle* seems a likely scenario. Although I'd probably get sick of his > putting himself down all the time. Does anyone else suspect this sort of > behaviour is fishing for a compliment? or alternatively a form of > self-preservation. I guess it would depend on the situation - whether he's > socialising with a pretty lady, or faced with being volunteered for a > dangerous mission. I think he is _able_ to put himself down because he is happy with who he is. Avon has trouble with even a hint of being imperfect, because he is _not_ happy with himself. I used to do the self-deprecation (as a way of getting laughs and compliments, but have found it harder as I have learned people actually sometimes _believe_ people who put themselves down) > I find it hard to define why I find Avon attractive - and I think this > subject has been done to death on several occasions. (Doesn't mean we can't > raise it again, imo ;).) All I know is, I hear that voice, or catch a > certain facial expression, and Intellect and Reason get hauled out into an > alley, beaten and left for dead by the Gland Gang. He's attractive. In Paul Darrow's balding, wrinkly present-day presence, I thought my knees would collapse under me and my heart pounded away. But I have brains and even at his most attractive, I know he would not be good for me... but then, if I was face-to-face, brains might give way to glands. Avon has, one can assume the same degree of charisma, but he wouldn't be a chain smoker. And if grabbed me in one of those famous Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for! Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all. Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in person. "Smooches?" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:13:38 -0800 From: Tramila To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222211338.006aa21c@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tramila wrote: >> ... Could it be that the Vila fans are in the E's category like me? (I'm an ESFJ.)... I'm just >>not up for these deep 'I' discussions... >> >> > because she is truly scared.> >Don't believe a word of this, folks. Crowds silently part to let Tramila >pass when she is in full con costume. Battle-scarred warriors step >aside; acid-drooling aliens skitter to the sidewalls. you get the picture. Oh Pat. you are sooo.... Sure I can play in full costume but in depth conversation is your specialty. (Note: You have never been to a con until you see Pat in her full puss-n-boots costume. ) >> Chapter Member and Pres of VICE >> Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element > >V.I.C.E. I like it! Move over, B.I.T.C.H. Shove it aside, A.S.S., Roll >up your turf, Tarrant Nostra, there's a new kid on the block and he's >packing a full bottle of soma. Tramila grabs her bottle and grins widely. >Panicked Pat P >P.S. Don't you mean Vila's Instantly Corruptible Element? Oh NO! Never. We Vila-types just want to INTIMATELY snuggle up to our Soma-drinking fav and plan corruption to the max. Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:59:22 -0800 From: Tramila To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222205922.006aa21c@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you >out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and >while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person, >but very open and caring. :^) > >Avona Tramila looks at Avona's name and wonders. Oh...All right. ...but just....let's just not go to Malodar. OK. Tramila takes a swig of her Soma for reassurrance. Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:43:33 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Tramila CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F10C85.2426@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tramila wrote: > > >Tramila dear, I will hold your hand if you'll trust me not to shove you > >out an airlock. I may be an Avon fan, but Vila is very adorable and > >while I understand Avon's ways of thinking, I am not a dangerous person, > >but very open and caring. :^) > > > >Avona > > Tramila looks at Avona's name and wonders. > Oh...All right. ...but > just....let's just not go to Malodar. OK. > > Tramila takes a swig of her Soma for reassurrance. > Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. > Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element I never cared for Malodar. Too many swamps, too much gravity, and too few landing places. How does Freedom City sound instead? -- Avona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:31:50 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [ow - snipped myself as well as Helen :)] >I used to do the self-deprecation (as a way of >getting laughs and compliments, but have found it harder as I have >learned people actually sometimes _believe_ people who put themselves >down) And sometimes the self-deprecatee starts to believe it themselves - not good. [snipped myself again] >He's attractive. In Paul Darrow's balding, wrinkly present-day presence, >I thought my knees would collapse under me and my heart pounded away. Lucky, lucky you :) I recently saw an ep of Pie in the Sky in which Paul Darrow appeared - I have to say I was temporarily shocked at the contrast against 20 years ago. Ah well, he's not Cliff Richard (thank deity-of-choice!). But he still had that presence, and, though he didn't speak much until the climactic scene, that wonderful gravelly voice. If anyone else knows the ep I mean (have to look up the title), did you notice a certain familiarity about the end of that scene? >But I have brains and even at his most attractive, I know he would not >be good for me... but then, if I was face-to-face, brains might give way >to glands. I think this is part of the fantasy we build around the show - going from the events of canon, to how the characters interact, to how we might interact with the characters. Not necessarily how one would behave IRL >Avon has, one can assume the same degree of charisma, but he >wouldn't be a chain smoker. Eeech, no! Not in my fantasies ;) Although, where did I think that voice was marinated? :\ >And if grabbed me in one of those famous >Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for! Apart from the taste of ash-tray :( >Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all. See? The Lysator Blakes 7 On-Line Therapy Group has brought you face-to-face with your true self :) >Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the >reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in >person. "Smooches?" Hmm, I wonder how I'd behave if I met you all in person. With such a foundation to build on, and our shared interest to kick-start the conversation, I might drop that reserved persona and try out the wild-child lurking in the back of my psyche 8) Anyway, my tummy is making threats - something about a hostile takeover if I don't drop this and go and find it some dinner. I'll respond to any replies in the morning. ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:56:38 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Nicola Collie CC: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila vs Avon in the lust stakes Message-ID: <34F10F97.4F96@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >And if grabbed me in one of those famous > >Avon embraces... smooches to forget the future for! > > Apart from the taste of ash-tray :( But, I don't think _Avon_ the character would smoke. Too life-threatening. He also never smokes in any episode (though we do see him stick gum under a console). I'm not mixing the character with the actor. I didn't try to get Paul to kiss me, due to the ash-tray factor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:26:52 -0800 From: Tramila To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222212652.00727208@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Vila's a classic ESFP. He is??? Coool!!!! >> Of course, Keirsey claims people tend to be attracted to their polar >> opposites in M-B terms, which should mean that the INTJs on the list would >> *like* Vila. nah! Avon types are probably just as annoyed with Vila as Avon was. >Hmm, I'm an Avon fan who took an immediate liking to Tramila, oh thank you. You have been so kind to me and I really appreciate it. >self-proclaimed Vila-type. I've gotta take this tesst soon and see what >I am. Yes. please do. It doesn't take long and it is so much fun to know and comtemplate. Here are the URL's just in case you or anyone else on the list doesn't have it. http://www.keirsey.com/cgi-bin/keirsey/newkts.cgi http://keirsey.com/ Tramila Proud Defender of Vila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:39:22 -0800 From: Tramila To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980222213922.0072c990@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Okay, I guess I _am_ a lust-bunny for Avon, after all. > >Yes, I think being on-line really helps us Reserved types scrap the >reservations. I would blush and die to say these things to strangers in >person. "Smooches?" LOL. We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that I score 10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe From a member of the V.I.C.E. squad. Tramila Chapter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E. Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:51:22 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980222234629.0069e32c@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nicola Collie wrote: >I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean >Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish? Yes. Probably related to the connection between beans and the production of wind. >(for those who are interested, "full of beans" to me means lively and >exuberant). I know it that way too, but only when applied to animals (usually horses.) -- - Lisa home: work: Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:09:29 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Tramila CC: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F11299.324F@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We extroverts never have a problem with this. (Did I mention that I score > 10 to 0 in favor of the Big E.? hehehehe > What about introverts who _fake_ being extorverts? I did that for a few years, and can still do it when the need arises. I love being on stage, by the way-- I'm reserved mostly 'cause I'm scared people won't like _me_-- acting solves the problem by turning me into someone else. Any other "I" types feel that way? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:40:25 -0800 From: Jacquelyn Taylor To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Grandstanding Message-ID: <34F119D9.225C@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P wrote: >>>Grandstanding in the political arena is not a bad thing; it is a good thing, a necessary thing. For how else can one get the public's (or the crew's) attention, jar them out of their internal dialogue and kindle them to action? Yes, Blake grandstanded on many occasions - but not nearly enough. He should have been grandstanding for audiences of entire planets, so that the populace would embrace the idea of Strength Through Unity. (see? Servalan was the better politician. No wonder she was in control!) Blake's charisma is only hinted at, such as when Governor LeGrande says "No, you are the only one they would all follow." Evidently Blake once had this ability, and demonstrated it in mobilizing Earth rebels (Freedom Party). But he has lost it by the time we meet him on board the London. Or has he? He mobilized the prisoners to act. Blake earned the Liberator. The others never really contest that fact, not even Avon. We humans respect the ability to grandstand. Look at how we idolize rock stars, etc. The more outrageous their grandstanding (Madonna, Prince, Aerosmith, Mick Jagger) the more we love them. Pat P>>>> This talk of grandstanding has driven me to ye ol' American Heritage Dictionary where to "grandstand" means to "perform ostentatiously for an audience." And as I catch my breath before looking up "ostentatious" as the American Heritage is a biceps builder of a book - I read a little further on on your post about Madonna and Prince and hey, this is BLAKE we're talking about. Modest Blake. He doesn't have an Ego. He doesn't even own a studded bra or purple wig! For an example of MY definition of grandstanding, there's Avon's "wading in blood" speech from "Star One". Or check out Brian Blessed, late of Cygnus Alpha. Or if you prefer to see a subtler style of grandstanding (if there is such a thing), observe how the clone queen in Weapon descends stairs. Contrast that with the way Blake stumbles down his in "Blake." Well he glanced at his feet as if he MIGHT stumble. Blake is known throughout the Fed universe not because he runs around the galaxy grandstanding but because he runs around being nettlesome and a pest. I doubt he gives himself much thought at all, or thinks about his "reputation" as such. Ah, just thought of an example of Blake grandstanding in true pest fashion. The end bit in Project Avalon where he stands there with the Avalon android and the deadly blue sphere and explains the deal to the people there. I suspect he rather enjoyed that. Pat P wrote: >>>>>> I like to think this is how Avalon worked; quietly, behind the scenes, knitting together a coalition of worlds. And this is the sad irony about Blake; that whatever the Federation did to his mental state, it caused him to put personal revenge (blowing up the odd base here and there) before the real power of politics - forming coalitions.>>>>>>> He blows up the odd base here and there not out of revenge but because he's not foolish enough to take on the entire Space Command at once. If he didn't have a ship and was ground-based, he would be organizing like Avalon (as he did post-Star One?). And I've not seen him as big on revenge or he would've taken out Travis in Duel and Gambit. In every case he readjusted his focus to include the bigger picture. He wants to destroy the Federation but not for what it did to him - but for what it has done and IS doing to millions of people. He risks his life for people he doesn't even know (as Avon once put it). For people who don't even know HIM. Are these the acts of someone big on Ego? >>>>>PS Does this let Tramilla off the hook for further elaboration on her grandstanding remark?>>>> I am prepared to relent :-). Sorry for zapping you, Tramila. I was grandstanding at the time. Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 05:46:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Families Message-Id: <199802230601.GAA13897@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just wanted to chime in here as one of those who =did= think that we were initially intended to believe that Tyce was Sarkoff's mistress rather than his daughter. I thought that we were supposed to despise him at first as someone who was not only shirking his responsibilities but playing the old goat with a woman young enough to be his daughter-- and then, graduallly, to form a better opinion of him, strengthened by the revelation that Tyce was his daughter. As for their bickering, IMO it could have been interpreted as indicating that their relationship was not one of affection but of commerce, and her surliness was that of a disgruntled employee. As for what we were supposed to think Del Grant's relationship with Anna was, I'm not sure, because that episode-- together with "Rumours"-- had been described to me in detail before I ever saw it. But the possibility that we were =not= initially supposed to realize he was her brother strikes me as plausible, and I'll keep it in mind the next time I re-watch. Sarah T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:37:51 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F0FD1F.7BD@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicola Collie wrote: > I'm not familiar with this expression (in this context). Do you mean > Keirsey is talking a load of rubbish? yes, she does > (for those who are interested, "full of beans" to me means lively and exuberant). You're thinking of Mexican Jumping Beans :D > > Interestingly (to me anyway - I tend to bore others rigid), ... This reminds me of a line from the book: "INTJs like to dialogue on the 7th plane of irreality." Yes, many people find INTJs boring. (That's why we're droning on on this list) Would you *really* want to listen to Avon and Orac discussing Particle Physics all nite? > I'd love to take Vila out for a beer. Can I join the party? Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:46:16 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila and the Myers Test Message-ID: <34F0FF18.35E2@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AChevron@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks for the site, Lisa. Took the test, turned up as an INTP, for > whatever that's worth. Can I still like Vila? Of course you can! Avon likes Vila (for all his posturing, of course he does; Vila is a welcome breath of fresh air into his vault of ponderances. Vila is a chortling stream frolicking thru the desert of Avon's seriousness. Vila is a surprise, a pinata, a pain in the logic. Vila reminds Avon that not everybody is so dang focused on perfection. With Vila, Avon can relax and even (dare I say it?) laugh. > > " Einstein? Marie Curie? Me? Go Awaaaaayyyy..." You must admit that the results of this test (and the book even more so than the web site) forces one to take a hard, honest look at themselves and their behaviors. Sometimes you realize that the person others see is not the person you think you are inside your own head! Pat P -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #58 *************************************