From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #48 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/48 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 48 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] On My Mind [B7L] Straight Blakes Re: [B7L] On My Mind Re: [B7L] Safety RE: [B7L] Cross-overs Re: [B7L] UK Gold [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day [B7L] Spin off Mailing Lists Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila [B7L] re: Avon on Terminal Re: [B7L] Safety RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Re: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day Re: [B7L] UK Gold RE: [B7L] Cross-overs [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] On My Mind [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish Re: [B7L] Safety Re: [B7L] Safety [B7L] Page 29/Double takes Re: [B7L] On My Mind Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish [B7L] Avon Morals Re: [B7L] Safety [B7L] Assorted comments ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:42:37 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: pussnboots@geocities.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: <34E71AFD.B65@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Plot idea> Avon leaves the crew once he can get a ship of his own. Blake > > is angry, feels that Avon is abandoning the dream. Avon is really going > > on a solo mission that he isn't telling anyon about. He has developed an > > incredible hatred for Servalan, and now that he doesn't have to worry > > about the others, he inteneds to get revenge for all she's done. > > But Servalan turns the tables and has him one up. And then Blake has to > come rescue him. And then slap him about a bit for his uninclusive > foolishness. oh please? ;) I don't know, Pat. Okay, Avon gets in too deep; Servalan's probably expecting him, but I'd prefer to make up for my previous scorning of Tarrant by having him be the one to say, "He's not running out. Avon doesn't run; he doesn't back down. He's been losing against the Federation--" Soolin interrupts> "Against _Servalan_" Tarrant"-- and then you show up and he feels like a spare part, an excess leader." Dayna>"Not excess, surely?" Blake>"You heard him. He's through. I don't like it any more than you, but he makes up his own mind. He always has. If I _said_ anything to try to hold him back, it would only make him angry, feel manipulated." Vila>"You have a point. There's no way to stop him.We've all seen that." Tarrant> The point is, he hasn't given up the fight. He's just taking it solo." Dayna> "Like his revenge for Anna or the time we lost the Liberator." Tarrant> (explaining for Blake) "He has a tendancy to try and force us away from his most dangerous plans." Blake>"I know. I know how Avon works, believe me. He's going to try to hunt Servalan down. He'll just be chopping off the head of a hydra, but that won't stop him from trying. Any suggestions as to _when_ and _where_? Federation territory is very big." Vila>"I knew you'd be getting to that. Lucky I dropped a tracer in his pocket when I said goodbye." (satisfied smile as the rest of the crew dtarts in surprize). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:40:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > Re: The Avon/Vila relationship. Sure, Avon talks down on Vila; Vila also > feels free to take digs at Avon, but never pushes too far. I see it slightly differently. Avon puts Vila down, of course, but Vila gives as good as he gets - sometimes better - and Avon respects that. It's kind of a sparring relationship. Contrast this with Avon's attitude to Gan: Avon regards Gan as stupid, dull and slow, and treats him with undisguised contempt. Even when the poor guy's snuffed it Avon's still slagging him off. Gan isn't able to counterattack Avon [1], so Avon dismisses him. Look at "Horizon": Vila is expendable, but Gan is stupid. Iain [1] The one exception being Gan's lovely "For a clever man you're not very bright". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:45:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Carol A. McCoy wrote: > > As for Iain, the more he reveals the more glad I am to have an > ocean between us. ;-) For some reason, this comment made me think of "The Full Monty". Iain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:45:47 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <19980215.084224.18311.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> lain wrote: >Hmmm. I reckon I have Travis's charm, Servalan's tolerance and Vila's sobriety. That's OK, as long as you keep your beard. Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:05:49 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Iain Coleman CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <34E7206D.2158@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Coleman wrote: > > Helen wrote: > > > > > > By the way, personally I admire and emulate Avon's brain, Cally's > > compassion, and Servalan's fashion sense. > > > > Hmmm. I reckon I have Travis's charm, Servalan's tolerance and Vila's sobriety. > > Iain _NOW_ we're worried, Iain. Very worried. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:52:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sat 14 Feb, Carol A. McCoy wrote: > > > Judith wrote about Avon: > > )(In a nutshell, he only ever really stuck his neck out for Blake) > > Say what? Now most of us know I'm first and second season deficient, > but I'm suspecting Avon risked his neck for shipmates other than > Blake during those eps. I can site some examples of his sticking > his neck out in third-fourth season: I was tired and on edge waiting for Richard who was several hours late after delays at the airport. Definately not thinking at my best. I wouldn't buy all of your examples as some of them don't constitute major risk to Avon's own neck, but there's certainly several that I'd accept. I'd also add Jenna in Deliverance as he risked additional radiation exposure when going back to seek for her. Omitting Anna can only be excused by extreme tiredness on my part. My neck's still too sore to elaborate in detail on the way I see some of the episodes, but many of the times he took a personal risk was because he also stood to benefit (eg. he too was in danger in Assassin). However, I think many of us would agree that Avon had an internal double standard. If asked, he would have claimed to risk his neck for nobody except himself (and Anna). In actuality, in situations like 'Horizon' he was sometimes glad of an excuse to do the 'right thing'. I've always believed that Liberator's energy banks were low in Horizon. If memory serves, they'd come there after being chased a long way. If the energy banks were at full, he could have outrun the pursuit ships. He laughs when told of the pursuit ships, and that laugh at fate is so very Avon. Do we ever see Avon laugh or give a large smile at any other time than when things are at their absolute worst? eg. Horizon (when he has to go to the rescue), Gold (when the money is useless), Terminal (the end), Blake (the end). Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:33:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sat 14 Feb, Pat Patera wrote: > Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > >... Tarrant looks up to Blake by > > reputation, so his Alpha male reactions will calm down in the presence > > of this Silverback of rebellion. > LOL! We have the Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans, the Tarrant Nostra > and ... what is the Blake's bunch called? With Judith keeping us updated > on how marvy Gareth looks now gone grey: How about Silverbacks? Well, that would fit in with my personal nickname for us . If Gareth is the silverback, then we have to be Gareth's Gorillas. I always distinguish between Blake fans and Gareth fans as the two are not necessarily the same. The first four Gareth fans who come to my mind constitute three Avon fans and a Vila fan. Blake comes second or third in my own list of preference, after Avon and possibly Servalan. I adore Gareth as Gareth rather than for any connection with Blake. I've seen him in enough things to appreciate his enormous range as an actor, and the man himself is amazingly likeable and unfailingly generous of himself with fans. (and always pays his own bar bill at conventions. If Gareth buys you a drink, he's paying for it, not the convention committee) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:19:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Straight Blakes Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Linda Knights will have the first two issues of Straight Blakes back in print in a few days. I know several people have been asking me if I could get hold of these. My husband's back from the US now (with a large box of zines), but Julia is going over shortly and has offered to carry more. So. If you want Straight Blakes at the US price rather than the UK price (ie. without the airmail postage cost), then let me know within the next week and I'll have them for Deliverance. (If you can't collect at Delivernace, then you wouldn't save much on the cost as I'll have to post it again.) Straight Blakes is the zine edited by Pat Jacquerie that contains only heterosexual fiction and is thus beloved by many who aren't really slash fans but still enjoy adult fiction. I don't know the exact price yet, but I'd expect it to be on a par with other zines of the same size. Straight Blakes 1 which I read recently is almost poetic in its style. It's a zine that has an almost unique style and some excellent writing. Definately one for those who want gentle considerate love rather than rape and violence. THere's a very entertaining Vila story as well as the more usual Avon ones. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:48:28 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-Id: <199802151947.UAA23535@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avona Wrote: > > I'd rather be in Avon's crew than Blake's. His sense of honor drives him > to be very careful with lives, more so than an idealist would be. (Not > that Blake didn't care about his crew, but he cared about ending the > Federation more) I think I'd prefer to be in Blake's crew, although I totally adore Avon. The reason is simple - Avon wasn't comfortable being the leader, the Decision Maker. I always believed that the friction between Avon and Tarrant in 1st season was partly due to the fact that Avon hoped Tarrant could be the de-facto leader, but that Avon could second guess him (as "owner" of the Liberator) whenever it suited him. Anyone who's ever tried to manage, lead, or supervise a team knows this won't work. Tarrant tries to step up to the mark as the decision maker, but is too young/impetuous/reckless for Avon's taste, and naturally Tarrant doesn't like Avon's on again/off again leadership. When Avon realises that Tarrant can't be an amenable, persuadable Blake, he finally and reluctantly takes control, quite firmly (around Sarcophagus time). However, Avon doesn't like being in charge, and is really looking for someone to lead instead of him. Tarrant settles in to being 2nd in command too comfortably to ever challenge again, so - he needs Blake. If they had survived the Blake debacle and Blake hadn't lived, I'm sure Avon would have tried to chivvy Tarrant up to the mark at some time into the future. If Blake had lived, Avon wouldn't have led - he'd have abdicated and sniped from the sidelines again, as only he knows how. Yum. > > Have I worded this okay? Don't worry about wording it ok - you're entitled to your opinion, and the fact that we're all on this mailing list together means we want you to assume that we're entitled to it too! For what it's worth, I lurked nervously for ages before actually posting, and I think you're really brave just to jump in the deep end as you did. > > Avon RULES! Yes!!!!! Sexiest man in the universe. >Blake MANIPULATES A VOTE IN HIS FAVOR! But he's so fascinating and passionate, so I'll vote for him! >Tarrant GOES OFF HALF-COCKED AND ALMOST GETS KILLED BUT SAVES THE DAY! And he looks so cute and sexy doing it too! >Vila STEALS! a gun, and saves everyone in a quiet and unassuming manner. He's also lovely, and I want to give him a cuddle. > Oh, dear. I'm LOSING IT! That's why we're here - B7 cyberjunkies. Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:56:01 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-Id: <199802152025.VAA25508@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol McCoy listed many wonderfull examples of Avon risking his neck for his crew, but I'd like to add: Redemption: After losing Jenna on the surface, he, Gan and Vila go back to the surface and expose themselves to excessive radiation untill they find her, (and Meegat, a woman with taste!). Ok, Blake does make it clear he expects Avon to do it, but this is one of the few times Avon doesn't fight with Blake over risking his life. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:24:57 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Cross-overs Message-ID: <01BD3A4F.EF369100@host5-99-61-28.btinternet.com> Tom here. Rob Clother asked: >Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be >worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and >Marvin. :-> Well, yes, I considered it, and I'm still vaguely considering it. There are a number of problems, though: 1. You'd have to write humour at least half as well as Adams, or it wouldn't really work. 2. B7 is all about plot and characters. HHGG has no coherent plot and no particularly deep characters. Not meaning any disrespect, of course, but even when it does have a plot, it's not the sort of conventional firm-SF plot that B7 usually has. 3. Blake would want to go up against the Krikkit robots, and they'd all get bowled out in no time. Blake would try and set up a solid opening partnership with Avon but spend most of his time at the crease ducking the really hard balls. As soon as he managed a cautious single, Avon would be in bat, and he'd constantly block everything, then swipe madly at one, set off running, not hit it as far as he'd have hoped, and get Blake run out. Gan would be in next, and he's so slow and lumbering that he'd get hit by every single bouncer. Fourtunately, they don't hurt him much, which is lucky because he's forgotten his helmet. Finally, one would glance off his limiter and he'd go bezerk, hit the umpire, pass out and have to be carried off the field. Jenna would be next in, brilliantly sending balls to the boundary all over the place. But then she'd suddenly remember that she'd left the oven on, get distracted, be clean bowled and wander off looking huffy and saying that she had another match to go to and never be heard from again. Cally would be next up, and with Avon standing opposite her, she'd obviously dress in one of those diaphenous crepe-paper numbers. She would manage to stop flirting long enough to read the next ball perfectly, have plenty of time to decide where to hit it, thwack it for a solid boundary and then find that on the backswing her draping sleeve had caught the bails. So it's 23 for 4, and over to Richie. Yes, thankyou Geoffrey. It's a lovely sunny day here at the Oval, and apart from the odd comic interlude from a streaking Chesterfield, it's been absoloute carnarge out there. The Krikkit Robots' first innings of 512 was only halted when Dayna started bowling hand-grenades. We never quite saw where she produced them from, but she managed to get six of them out before being called in for ball-tampering. Gan then bowled a ball at mach 2 and took one of their heads off, Tarrant blinded one by flashing the sun off his teeth, and wicketkeeper Soolin just shot the final two in the back. So now it's back to Blake's Innings, and it's Avon still at the crease, and joining him the new batsman is Dayna. Dayna would be using a specially-modified bat of her own design. She's very good with it, but she has spotted Servalan sitting in the crowd and keeps trying to knock her teeth out with the ball. This means she's a bit too predictable, and falls prey to some good fielder placement. And thus Orac comes in to bat. Despite the lack of limbs, Orac is extremely effective, and takes over the bowler and wicketkeepers' minds. He manages to score quite a number of leg-byes before Avon starts feeling hot and gives his studded leather jacket to the umpire. On the walk back to his crease, he trips over Orac and knocks off the activator chip, and that's Orac clean bowled on the next ball. Tarrant tries his usual teeth-flashing trick, but then it gets cloudy and he stupidly plays at a vicious bouncer, just tips it, and gets caught out in the mid-field. The Liberator is next in bat, and with careful use of the force-wall, Zen fends off some fiendish bowling, but never actually manages any runs. As they go into the tea interval, the score is 32 for 7. Unfortunately, during tea, someone balances a cup on Liberator, and then kocks it over with their elbow. To everyone's horror, the tea-covered Liberator melts into a puddle, with Zen wailing "I have failed". After the unfortunate events of tea, Soolin comes in. She has a nasty habit of shooting the balls she doesn't like the look of, which does save her wicket a couple of times, but gets her a stern warning from the umpire. Then she spots Avon grinning at her cleavage from the other end and shoots at him. He ducks, but meanwhile she has stepped out of her crease and the wicketkeeper tips the bails off. Last in is Vila. Vila lasts for quite a long time, but only because they can't find the bails for half an hour. It then transpires that Vila has half-inched them, and once found he cowers behind his bat and is bowled. Avon snarles definately at everyone, but you can't play on with only one man in, so that's the end of the game. Final score: 42 all out. 4. Always assuming they managed to overcome the might of the Krikkit xenophobes, Blake would want to re-instate President Zaphod (just like S arkoff). And then the universe would be in trouble. 5. I've already got my hands full with these damned Excessive computers, and what with all the plot-holing that it requires, I'm a bit busy. All yours... Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:41:10 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] UK Gold Message-ID: <34E7C366.5D3D@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Clother wrote: > They're showing "Terminal" on UK > Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue". But they didn't! Today (15th Feb) should have been Terminal and we just got a double Dr Who omnibus. I am distraught as I too am watching most of these for the first time. Is there anybody out there with a Cable or Satellite guide for the rest of the month who can reassure me that this is only a temporary hiatus and not UK Gold abandoning us 3/4 of the way through? Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:34:08 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Penny and /or Judith wrote >That picture is gorgeous - I had to remove it from my desk because it was >too distracting when I was working!) >Story."> >***** >Ah yes, but if you want a deep dark enigmatic glimpse inside the true heart >of a charismatic revolutionary, the look of a man with the destiny of a >mortal Federation in his hands, the face & stance of the True One who will >lead his people into the light, the spirit that makes women swoon and men >tremble, you really need to be looking at page 29 instead. I now know the significance of these exchanges, as my beloved gave me a copy of The Inside Story for Valentines Day. I'm so understood 8-) 0'course, I had to turn to page 29 first - Beloved and I were both ROFL ;-) ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:46:31 -0700 (MST) From: The Doctor To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Spin off Mailing Lists Message-Id: <199802152046.NAA03168@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question what are the spinoff lists and how does one subscribe? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:09:25 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and Vila Message-ID: <5d212f16.34e75987@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-15 11:41:29 EST, Iian writes: << Avon regards Gan as stupid, dull and slow, and treats him with undisguised contempt. >> Actually, I've been suprised at how little Avon digs into Gan, as big a target as he is. I've not noticed Gan catching any more flak than the others; Avon seems to dish out his virtriul(sic) impartially. One of my favorite background scenes, I don't remember which episode, has Gan and Avon hunched over a control panel in the background as Blake talks in the foreground. So Avon was willing to expend time and effort with Gan. And he did sacrifice a bolthole for the man. Perhaps Gan's utter honesty affectted him more than he realized, or he was impressed by Gan's determination to do the best he could( putting up with Orac as a tutor would have driven all the Alphas on board bonkers, I think). D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:21:28 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: Avon on Terminal Message-ID: <88cea301.34e75c5a@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My original responce to Julia's posting got bounced, so I thought I'd try again. Julia wrote<< The look on Avon's face in this scene is something to behold. Blake was the real bait all along.>> I loved the contrast of his laughing answer to Servalan just before this scene, and then this spot. It makes clear that to Avon, at least, Blake was indeed the bait. I disagree that Servalan considered Blake the true bait, however. I always looked at her speech as a chance to twist a knife into Avon's metaphorical gut; not because she thought he was obsessed with Blake, but because she was stamping on his pride of Intellect. Her whole point was that he was gullible enough to fall for her illusion; had been too dense to see throught the trap. ANother irony in the chain of events... Deborah Rose " I will stay calm. I will stay calm. 6 weeks is a nanosecond in cosmic terms..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:27:50 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: In message <199802151609.LAA24983@yfn.ysu.edu>, "Carol A. McCoy" writes > > >Julia wrote: > >>And as a hard-core Avon fan, I have to agree. Yes, he's pretty. Yes, he >>can be, in his own way, a decent chap. He's also very, very dangerous. > >I suddenly feel as if I'm missing something. Dangerous in what way, >Julia? Urgh. I'm busy packing, can I be excused? At least from a detailed reply? (Especially as a certain beta-reader is going to start nagging about wanting to see the rest of the story *before* I depart these shores) At this distance in time, I can't give you specific reasons for why I felt 19-20 years ago that Blake might want to dump Avon out an airlock, other than the general insubordination, backchat and trying to undermine his authority. (Not that I think that Blake is as entitled to that authority as he does, there were three of them in the boarding party, after all.) Oh, and planning to leave him behind on Cygnus Alpha. Obviously, I could go through the scripts and pick out the bits that I'd see that way now. At least from Blake's point of view. They might not be the same as I saw then. I have a rather more jaundiced view of Blake now. I could give you chapter and verse on why Avon is a man to be wary of, but a significant indicator is the man's body count. Even adjusting for number of episodes, he kills an awful lot of people. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:50:54 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Safety Message-ID: <01BD3A5C.D504B660@host5-99-61-28.btinternet.com> If I were in a tight spot, I'd rely more on Blake to come and bail me out - Avon might decide not to bother. OTOH, Blake would be more likely to get you _into_ a tight spot with his rebellion bit. And if Avon did decide you were worth the trouble of rescuing, he'd probably come up with a rational plan for doing it, rather than just rush in with guns and hope for the best as Blake might well do. So I have to say I wouldn't consider either of them particularly safe to be around for any length of time. But if I were a close friend I'd probably trust Avon more, if I were a more casual acquaintance I'd put my faith in Blake 8-) Louise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:53:35 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] blake picture and Valentines Day Message-ID: In message , Nicola Collie writes > >I now know the significance of these exchanges, as my beloved gave me a >copy of The Inside Story for Valentines Day. I'm so understood 8-) >0'course, I had to turn to page 29 first - Beloved and I were both ROFL ;-) Now do you understand why several *con* reports from last year's Neutral Zone (first public sighting - and signing - of The Inside Story) mentioned this page in particular? One of my fondest memories of that con is Judith Proctor very close to literally ROFL, waving an open copy and giggling hysterically. Rapidly followed by several other purchasers on seeing what she was laughing at. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:47:28 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] UK Gold Message-ID: In message <34E7C366.5D3D@dial.pipex.com>, "J. I. Horner" writes >Rob Clother wrote: > >> They're showing "Terminal" on UK >> Gold tomorrow, then next week they're diving straight into "Rescue". > >But they didn't! Today (15th Feb) should have been Terminal and we just >got a double Dr Who omnibus. I am distraught as I too am watching most of >these for the first time. > >Is there anybody out there with a Cable or Satellite guide for the rest >of the month who can reassure me that this is only a temporary hiatus and >not UK Gold abandoning us 3/4 of the way through? > This is what they do when they come to a two-parter or six-parter (or equivalent for the Great 45 Minute Experiment) on Dr Who - it wouldn't fit in the normal 2 hour Who slot, so they use the B7 slot and show 6 episodes, either 2+4 or 4+2 or 6. There's normally one of these per season in the Pertwee/Baker/Davison eras. It deeply distressed me the first time this happened after I started watching UK Gold. I figured out what was going on the second time. Terminal should be on next week, but I haven't actually checked yet. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:59:04 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: RE: [B7L] Cross-overs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tom here. Rob Clother asked: >>Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be >>worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and >>Marvin. :-> > >Well, yes, I considered it, and I'm still vaguely considering it. There are >a number of problems, though: > >1. You'd have to write humour at least half as well as Adams, or it >wouldn't really work. > >2. B7 is all about plot and characters. HHGG has no coherent plot and no >particularly deep characters. Not meaning any disrespect, of course, but >even when it does have a plot, it's not the sort of conventional firm-SF >plot that B7 usually has. > >3. [very amusing unconventional Adams-style B7/Krikkit account snipped] Well, it seems to me that you've qualified based on points 1 and 2 above - would you like to have a go? Oh - looks like you have - um, yes, very good, as you were ;-) Seriously, I thought this was great chuckle material . ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998 ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:24:10 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish? Message-ID: >>Rob wrote: >>Tarrant to contact Liberator. And it's Tarrant who shows Avon how to >>get the information they need out of the dying Grenlee. >Precisely. And does he get any thanks for it? Does he even get any >acknowledgement? Certainly not later in the episode, where Avon >doesn't consider him to be anything other than an obstruction. I see this differently... By Avon's very nature, he has difficulty expressing gratitude, or any feelings at all, and the crew know this. Tarrant, and the others, got their "acknowledgement" from the very fact that Avon LET them see him like this...that he 'asked' for their help and support...and that he felt secure enough with them to even tell them about Anna. Avon wouldn't allow that kind of vulnerability with people he didn't respect and (more importantly) trust. Tarrant understood all of this without it having to be voiced. He accepted the leadership role and responsibility for the "mission" and even became proctective of Avon. And he did this without feeling the need to hear Avon "voice" his gratitude. He knew it was there. Much the same way that Avon didn't need to hear Tarrant say "thank you" for his support in "Deathwatch." Like Narrelle, I used to intensely dislike Tarrant, but, thru the influence of some Tarrant fans, :) I have been taking a second look at him -- and I'm discovering there is a lot about him to like. I am still an Avonphile right down to my tingling toes; but I've gained a whole new appreciation of Tarrant. ;) Carol K (still a slavering A.S.S. for my lust-bunny Avon) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:29:00 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Pat Patera wrote: >We have the Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans, the Tarrant Nostra >and ... what is the Blake's bunch called? With Judith keeping us updated >on how marvy Gareth looks now gone grey: How about Silverbacks? LOL! 8-) If this is going to involve waggling alarmingly red butts in anyone's face...well, let's not go there... Most fans who have a preference for Blake are, of course, too smart and rational to give themselves a silly name or align themselves with a faction sporting a silly name. I, on the other hand...8-) have settled on BITCH. I dunno, it just sort of suits me. It's an acronym, too, maybe I should mention that. 8-) Blake Is The Chosen Hero. If there's more than me in the group, The can change to Their. I look forward to the BITCH buttons at MediaWest. 8-) Oooh! We could even have funky first names, like the Spice Girls. I wanna be Sarcastic Bitch! Or Castrating Bitch. Choices, choices... Like Judith, btw, I would delineate between Gareth fans and Blake fans. Unlike Judith, I prefer the latter to the former. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html B.I.T.C.H. "It's not just what I do. It's who I am." ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:36:52 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish Message-ID: >Carol McCoy wrote: >Tarrant said he was surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On >the other hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted And, yes, eventually Tarrant realized he could count on Avon, but if Avon >had been more honest to begin with, all that time of doubt would have been >avoided. I don't think it had so much to do with honesty as with neither of them knowing where they stood with the other. In the beginning of their relationship, Avon and Tarrant were sizing each other up, feeling each other out (minds out of the gutter slash fans!). As we saw in season four, they eventually worked it out beautifully. Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:16:09 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <199802160016.TAA05229@yfn.ysu.edu> Judith wrote: >I was tired and on edge waiting for Richard who was several hours late after >delays at the airport. Definately not thinking at my best. I wouldn't buy all >of your examples as some of them don't constitute major risk to Avon's own neck, >but there's certainly several that I'd accept. Sorry about your airport wait. That would be draining. And I can understand that you'd think of Blake first. I'm sure I'm guilty of being Tarrantcentric often enough. :) I appreciate the Jenna rescue information from you and Jenni. I have to count on the list for 1st-2nd season memory refreshers until I have time to rewatch eps. >My neck's still too sore to elaborate in detail on the way I see some of the >episodes, but many of the times he took a personal risk was because he also >stood to benefit (eg. he too was in danger in Assassin). I considered that in regards to Assassin. Avon *was* in as much danger from Cancer as the others. But I left it in because Avon chose to do the dirtiest job himself. I think we'd all agree that he could have forced Vila to do the job, or easily gotten energetic Dayna or the relentlessly reckless Tarrant to volunteer. My backstory is that Avon decided it was his turn to take the risks. I could be wrong. I can't come up with any other canonical references to back that idea. It's a gut instinct. >However, I think many of us would agree that Avon had an internal double >standard. If asked, he would have claimed to risk his neck for nobody except >himself (and Anna). In actuality, in situations like 'Horizon' he was sometimes >glad of an excuse to do the 'right thing'. Absolutely. I think he was glad to have Blake and Tarrant around to act as group conscience. He never had to suggest the heroic charge into the Valley of Death, because he knew one of them would do it for him. He liked not having to reveal that he cared. >Do we ever see Avon laugh or give a large smile at any other time than when >things are at their absolute worst? eg. Horizon (when he has to go to the >rescue), Gold (when the money is useless), Terminal (the end), Blake (the end). I probably have Avon smiles tagged in my visual notes of the series that I use for music vidding, but I don't have time to sift through them all now. There's a smile in "Countdown" when he's where the solium bomb is located. I think that's after they disarm it, but I'm not sure. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:24:04 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <199802160024.TAA05663@yfn.ysu.edu> Julia wrote: >Urgh. I'm busy packing, can I be excused? At least from a detailed >reply? Yes, of course. I appreciate that you took time to write up as much as you did. I was just curious (and not in the way Dayna is ;-). I think because I have Patti's "computer nerd" image of Avon in my mind, and I tend to agree with it. I don't so much see Avon as a dangerous man as a man who was forced to become dangerous by circumstance. That little bit of difference means a lot to me in terms of Avon's basic character/inner nature. Have a good, safe trip, Julia. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:19:58 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Page 29/Double takes Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Julia: >Now do you understand why several *con* reports from last year's Neutral >Zone (first public sighting - and signing - of The Inside Story) >mentioned this page in particular? Absolutely, although I have no recollection of seeing any of these con reports. >One of my fondest memories of that con is Judith Proctor very close to >literally ROFL, waving an open copy and giggling hysterically. Rapidly >followed by several other purchasers on seeing what she was laughing at. Sounds like mayhem ensued. Now I just have to get the image of hordes of fen rolling about the floor out of my head. :-) On a distantly related note, every time I see a reference to NZ or even Neutral Zone, I have to look twice. Why? Because I'm conditioned to take especial notice of anything referring to my fair homeland. Anything mentioning NZ and Australia in close proximity rates a triple-take. Not complaining, just observing. ttfn, Nicola (of the wobbly eyeballs) --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz AVON IS A FRIEND IN A FISHTANK. MORBIUS'S BRAIN WAS NOT LOGIC; THAT WAS SURREALISM. - MegaHal 8, 16/2/1998 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:31:07 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] On My Mind Message-ID: <199802160031.TAA06291@yfn.ysu.edu> Sue wrote: > Most fans who have a preference for Blake are, of course, too smart >and rational to give themselves a silly name or align themselves with a >faction sporting a silly name. I, on the other hand...8-) have settled on >BITCH. I dunno, it just sort of suits me. It's an acronym, too, maybe I >should mention that. 8-) Blake Is The Chosen Hero. Snarf... I like it. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:53:26 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: heroic or selfish Message-ID: <199802160053.TAA08457@yfn.ysu.edu> Carol K wrote: A post with superb Avon and Tarrant character neep that I'm storing away for reference material. She also wrote: >>Carol McCoy wrote: >>Tarrant said he was surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On >>the other hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted > >Well, Vila has doubted it often enough. But, then, that's Vila--and he doesn't >count. I thought of Vila's "doubts" when I wrote my post, but I dismissed them as not serious. I think a lot of Vila's nattering "so and so isn't coming back for me (us)" was more an attempt to get out of the mission than as serious doubting. Such as in Orbit when he suggests Tarrant will run out on them (to Avon). And in Games when he suggests Avon will abandon them (to Tarrant). >I think Cally, Dayna, and even Vila (and later Soolin) had no doubts that Avon >would come back for...or rescue them. I'd basically agree with that--at least as far as what my memory will tell me (it's only mostly Tarrant scenes that are writ in stone ). Though I'm not sure Vila would feel the same after "Orbit." His faith had been shaken. I'm writing myself a note to check out the Cally-Avon scene in Horizon (when they are the only two on the ship). I think that would help me get a better picture of whether Cally did or didn't have doubts about Avon. >I don't think it had so much to do with honesty as with neither of them knowing >where they stood with the other. In the beginning of their relationship, Avon >and Tarrant were sizing each other up, feeling each other out (minds out of the >gutter slash fans!). As we saw in season four, they eventually worked it out >beautifully. That's a good distinction. It wasn't just sizing each other up, feeling each other out, it was also getting to know each other. Tarrant as a basically forthright person tended to believe that everyone else was the same (until proven different). So he accepted Avon's outward show of not caring as gospel truth. It took him a long time of observing Avon before he knew to look at Avon's behavior more than his words. And I suppose it is unfair of me to wish Avon were more honest. He can't change his nature any more than Tarrant can change his reckless impetuousity. I wouldn't want them to change. I like them as they are. But I can still feel a bit sniffy for Tarrant that he doubted Avon would come back for him in "Terminal." Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 16:53:10 -0800 From: "Kinkade.Carol" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon Morals Message-ID: >Penny wrote: >Did he have no practical reasons? As I recall, he reasoned that he could >manage the ship alone unless three or more Federation pursuit ships >appeared. They did appear, hence his wonderful laugh full face in the >camera, and then he HAD to rescue them, since he needed them. Why did he need them?? Avon could have broken orbit and left Horizon and the crew far behind before the pursuit ships arrived. I've envisioned that "wonderful laugh full face in the camera" to be Avon laughing at himself. Because he realized that, even though he COULD get away, he was going to do the "foolish" thing and rescue them. THAT'S MY MAN!!! Carol K (AVON RULES!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:14:13 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Safety Message-ID: <34E792E5.6FD4@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Early on, Avon asked Genna if she could kill someone face to face, and said he'd never been in a situation to find out. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:09:12 -0600 (CST) From: Susan.Moore@uni.edu To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Assorted comments Message-id: <01ITMB7HSCN68Z3ZMQ@uni.edu> Tom - Thanks for the cricket match. I've decided if I keep reading stuff about cricket I'll eventually understand the game. So, not only was your piece entertaining but educational as well! Judith - Great news about the Straight Blake issues. I have the first one, which besides the excellent Vila story has other great stories (particularly Red Queen, Black Queen) which have to be read. Ooooh and the great Soolin/*Avon story. To everyone else, thanks for the thought-provoking comments about everybody. Susan "my goal in life is to get asteriks by my name on Sue Clerc's web page" M. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #48 *************************************