From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #45 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/45 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 45 Today's Topics: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully [B7L] Different Generations [B7L] Avon & Cally [B7L] Cross-overs Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant Re: [B7L] Various stuff Re: [B7L] Avon's morals Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Re: [B7L] Avon's morals Re: [B7L] RE: Location, location, location Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY Re: [B7L]Monkey [B7L] Re: Where Are People/Location... [B7L] B7, Avon, and anything else I can think of. Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully [B7l]: Spam Mail [B7L] Re: more about Monkey [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Re: SC: [B7l]: Spam Mail [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis Re: [B7L]Monkey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:52:11 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980212195211.007afbf0@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Carol wrote: > >> City at the Edge of the World: Avon wants to leave when it is >> growing dark. Tarrant argues they should stay and find Vila. and Heather replied >Um, and at the beginning of the episode he threatens to throw Vila off the >ship, saying that 'you're no use to me'. not exactly heroic behaviour. >Maybe he was just feeling guilty when he wants to look for Vila. I thought it was normally a good thing to have seen the error of one's ways, feel sorry for them and then try to set it right.... Yes, Tarrant bullied Vila to begin with. I don't think he ever had any intention of trying to throw Vila off the ship; he was just trying out a leadership technique which had perhaps worked before (he'd been the captain of a ship of mercenaries, if I recall correctly) or maybe he just thought it was a technique that might work. I wouldn't have thought he would have known someone quite like Vila before... :-) (As a person recently promoted to a supervisory position for the first time, I am feeling acutely aware of the fact that different people require different kinds of leadership and I'm still trying to work out how to deliver the right approach for the right person. If it is this fraught with hazard in the banking industry, how on earth must Tarrant have felt?) I used to really dislike Tarrant. A lot. This episode used to be a main reason for it. But now I watch it and see that whilst Tarrant made an error of judgement and did something wrong, he also acknowledged it and wanted to rectify it. Whether or not he is fond of Vila, trying to fix a mistake is the right thing to do. And as someone else pointed out recently, Tarrant was the one who suggested leaving VIla and Kerril alone for a moment, so that Vila could decide without pressure from his crewmates what he should do. This is not to say that Tarrant became instantly perfect. They are a somewhat imperfect bunch, if you hadn't noticed, and he fitted right on in with the rest of them. :-) Narrelle (a convert) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:38:53 GMT From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Different Generations Message-ID: <444D9D3A4D@sdk1.derby.ac.uk> Lady C., the Anceunt One writes > I think this is the hallmark of any good dramatic series. The youngest viewers watch for the > "action", and occasionally the basic plot line. What basically happens is > that those of us who are - um (don't want to offend either end of the age > spectrum here)- more mature (sophisticated?) in our reactions to television > see not only the straightforward plot, but the intricacies of character > development and relationships along with the more subtle, implicit events > in the series. So, true. I first watched the series when I was 12 (giving away my age here!). I didn't particularly notice the interaction between the characters, or the inexpensive props, but liked the exiting stories and of cause had an infatuation with Avon . However, I recently started re-watching Blake's 7 on video and I am enjoying it now for totally different reasons. I particularly like the subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) reactions of the characters in the backgrounds - as was mentioned in recent postings. Cylan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:07:04 GMT From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon & Cally Message-ID: <44C5F82CFC@sdk1.derby.ac.uk> AChevron wrote: < No doubt in my mind. Avon tolerates the change of priorities when the > Sarcophogus shows up, pretty much to humor Cally. And the glances he keeps > giving her through the episode. Personal opinion; having resolved his Anna > Grant fixation, he felt ready to attempt a relationship with Cally. Presumably > when Servalan's fake Blake messages started arriving, he put the matter on > hold, so that he wouldn't prematurally let slip what he was about, expecting > to resume the relationship after the Liberator et al were re-united with > Blake. And then Terminal happened.... no wonder the poor lad was a > tad....aggresive in series 4. When you are a teenager you like to place people in T.V. series into 'couples' and I must admit that I always put Avon & Cally together. Cylan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:18:11 GMT From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Cross-overs Message-ID: <44F67E4F16@sdk1.derby.ac.uk> Rob said: > Has anyone ever conceived of a B7/HitchHiker's cross-over? It would be > worth it just to see what kind of relationship develops between Orac and > Marvin. :-> What an interesting idea! A manically depressive Orac who 'knows' everything and so thinks it is not worth living anymore. Cylan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:36:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Avon > >never missed an opportunity to show Tarrant up for a trigger-happy maniac, > >while delighting in his own intellectual superiority. In Blake's company, > >without Avon's persistent subtle put-downs, I agree that Tarrant would > >have been a very different character. As it was, Avon brought out the > >worst aspects of his personality, and it is much easier to dislike him for > >that than it is to recognise the contributions he made to the crew. > > This certainly isn't how I saw it. I thought Avon and Tarrant made an > excellent partnership, each playing off each other's strengths and > weaknesses. Each of them managing to take over when the other > one was having a bad day. They came to respect each other, as evidenced > in the moving scenes in BLAKE where Avon regrets leaving Tarrant > on Scorpio and expresses appreciation that Tarrant survived. Good point. By then, their relationship had changed, though. > I'm reminded of RUMOURS OF DEATH when Avon is the one behaving > with atypical recklessness, and Tarrant is providing the cool head. > They teleport to Earth and Avon goes charging off. It's left to > Tarrant to contact Liberator. And it's Tarrant who shows Avon > how to get the information they need out of the dying Grenlee. Precisely. And does he get any thanks for it? Does he even get any acknowledgement? Certainly not later in the episode, where Avon doesn't consider him to be anything other than an obstruction. Tarrant: Avon, you really are a prize -- Avon: Yes, I really am. So shut up and let me do what I came to do. Not an isolated incident. And, because of Avon's charisma, we, the viewers, let him get away with it. But we resent every false step Tarrant ever makes. It is easy to dislike Tarrant -- Steven Pacey can't stand him, for a start -- but our reasons for disliking him any more than anyone else simply don't stand up to rational questioning. Tarrant was a team player. But any team player needs recognition from the rest of his team. Blake would have given him that recognition, and served as a mediator between him and Avon. But things don't always work out the way we'd like them to. And it was probably more interesting the way it was. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:40:26 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <199802121340.IAA06869@yfn.ysu.edu> Avona wrote: > You can ignore me if you want, but I will explain; the Blake's 7 >characters tend to be arcetypes. I know about archetypical characters. But I dislike squeezing people (including complex characters) into narrowly-defined pegs. I'd rather view them from a broader perspective. Since I don't have time to discuss everything, I tend to center my posts on what I do like to discuss. Which is why I didn't comment on some of your comments. > Yes, I _do_ consider Avon's point of view to be intriguing. I wouldn't >behave the way he does. I do however, understand his reasoning. And I >admire the strength it takes to do the "wrong" thing, knowing that it >will be forever on his conscience, knowing he won't be forgiven, but >knowing it is the only way to save lives.(Stardrive) I admire Avon for his decision in "Stardrive" as well. It's not a decision anyone wants to have to make. But I don't think he was the only B7 character forced into that type of choice. Blake, as a revolutionary leader, had to be forced to make those types of life and decisions on a regular basis. And I'm quite sure every death he was responsible for weighed on his conscience. Many of us admire Avon but we don't see him as better than the other characters. Which, whether you meant it to be that way or not, is how your posts were coming across. It was as if Avon could do no wrong, and no one matched up to him. Let me requote from one of your earlier posts to show you what I mean. > But Tarrant claims the role of hero while often > rejecting the risks; Avon disclaims the role in spite of often indulging > in heroic behavior. Does this not imply that Avon is superior to Tarrant? And, yes, it's perfectly all right for you to believe that. But it's also all right for other fans to disagree. Avon's disclaiming heroics while often indulging in them isn't something that I can admire. I can only think of how difficult that had to be for his shipmates. Can they count on him for rescue or not? He certainly had Tarrant believing--as I noted in a post yesterday--that he couldn't count on Avon. Tarrant said he was surprised that Avon came back for him in "Rescue." On the other hand, I don't think any of his shipmates would ever have doubted that Tarrant would come back for them. And, yes, eventually Tarrant realized he could count on Avon, but if Avon had been more honest to begin with, all that time of doubt would have been avoided. You say that Tarrant claims the role of hero. I ask you when did he make that claim? You say that Tarrant rejected risks. I ask you when did he reject risks? >Sometimes he makes >mistakes; look at how he walked into Servalan's traps at times. But he >always cared about his teammates; he just never liked to admit it. Now that's a statement I can completely agree with. Yes, Avon made mistakes. Yes he cared about his shipmates (despite denying it). And yes he had as strong of a moral code as Blake and Tarrant. >So crucify me for liking the character. I'm not sure how challenging what you said qualifies as crucifying. But if I showed offense I apologize. >Why did you watch past the first >two seasons if you dispise him as much as your comments to me seem to >indicate? Despise Avon, no. Recognize that he has as many faults as his shipmates, yes. Prefer that he not be deified, definite yes. As to what I watched, when and why, it happens that I saw third and fourth seasons before I saw seasons one and two. And I prefer third and fourth seasons, both because I'm primarily Tarrant fan and because I very much enjoy the maturing of Avon that takes place in those seasons. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:41 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Message-ID: <199802121407.JAA08242@yfn.ysu.edu> Rob offered examples of Tarrant's lack of tact and sensitivity: >Sarcophagus: his treatment of Cally, which sparked off his little >tete-a-tete with Avon. He was suspicious of her and wanted answers, but >he went totally the wrong way about it. I'm not sure why it is wrong for Tarrant to be open and honest in his suspicions. He was an honest, forthright person. Cally's scold of Avon later suggests that she prefered Tarrant's honesty as well. Quoting from a draft version of the script so this might not be exact, she says: "You didn't trust me. You thought I had some obscure reaction to something on that ship. Didn't you? You and I teleported aboard so you could watch me. See what I'd do. You cut Tarrant out because he had the same idea, but he'd made no secret of it." >City at the Edge of the World and Moloch: his interactions with Vila. >Both times, he was trying to enlist Vila's efforts. Both times he >resorted to a battle of wills, which, in the latter case, he actually >lost. By contrast, Blake would have known exactly how to handle the >situation. I'd agree that Tarrant wasn't at his best when trying to gain Vila's coopera- tion in City and Moloch. He made mistakes. But as has been often pointed out, they all made mistakes. And Blake wasn't always the most tactful person. He was willing to use forceful methods to gain people's cooperation. Such as in "Bounty" when he was trying to covince Sarkoff to return to Lindor. There were other times when Tarrant's tact and sensitivity were exemplary. One of my favorite moments is in "Children of Auron" when they reach the replication plant. He was gentle and considerate with Cally, aware of the emotional impact of her reunion with Zelda. When his shipmates were at their lowest, Tarrant seemed to gain a maturity beyond his chronological age that enabled him to be supportive. All of the crew had exemplary moments of sensitivity. My two favorite Avon moments occur in "Headhunter" and "Death-Watch." In the former, Avon recognizes that Muller's woman requires comforting. And it's so cute when he realizes that's not his cup of tea and he offers a soulful eye plea for Soolin to take over. In "Death-Watch" Avon offered Tarrant the type of sympathy that a fellow Alphan would find acceptable. He wasn't gushing with sympathy, but rather quietly supportive. One of my favorite Blake moments is the support he offers Jenna when the two of them are captured on Horizon. >Strange as it sounds, it was Avon's tact that won >him the leadership role in Series 4. > >Examples? Sorry, gotta go and talk to my supervisor now. I'll come back >to this later, if the discussion is still going. Please do, I'll be interested in the theory. I can't say that I ever saw tact as how Avon won the leadership role. He won it almost by default--once he started to accept responsibility, Tarrant backed down. I have to agree with Nicole that Tarrant wasn't overly eager to be in charge. He was filling a gap until Avon stepped forth. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:15:25 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Various stuff Message-ID: <199802121415.JAA08358@yfn.ysu.edu> Nicole wrote: >Actually, what Sarcophagus illustrates is that the Humming Blue Egg can >manipulate the minds and emotions of the humans on board. A & T are >interacting 'normally' in the beginning of the ep. Just before Avon and >Tarrant start their rants, the camera focusses on the HBE; I choose to >interpret that as an indication that it is influencing their >interactions; as soon as it stops, both Avon and Tarrant drop the >postures. Both say something to the effect of 'Forget that', and they go >on. Love the "Humming Blue Egg." And your interpretation is how I saw the scene. The reason the Egg chose to influence them is given later in the episode. Avon says (again, I'm quoting from a draft version of the script): "Isn't it obvious? We've been out-maneuvered. Teleport failures. Mysterious alien artifacts. Whiel you and I were pawing the ground, Tarrant, that thing used Cally to re-activate the device in the correct sequencel. ..." Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:43:45 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's morals Message-ID: <887291140.2016112.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain said > I think you're maybe being a wee bit unfair to poor old Nietzsche. This > "Nietzschean hero" we're talking about is largely derived from "Thus Spoke > Zarathustra", and your comments about morality sound as though they're > from "The Antichrist" (though there are other possibilities, it's just > that that is his most vicious rant on this topic). Actually when I saw that Helen K was posting about Nietzsche I had another read of 'Beyond Good and Evil' which is an intensely irritating book IMHO. Uh.. the irritation coming across in this email is directed solely at nietzche, not anyone else. Oh, and BTW I'm sorry somebody sent you a rude private email Helen - what a horrid thing to do! if they aren't interested then they should just skip the topic. > I don't know if you've > read "Human, All Too Human" or "Daybreak". To me, these are his best > books. There's a subtlety, a lightness of touch and a genuine human > feeling in those books, as well as a lot of insightful and prophetic > statements that sound as if they come from a 20th Century writer. Well there just comes a limit to how many books you can read if someone just gets on your wick (a bit like people talking recently about EE Smith and Hubbard). FWIW (perhaps better go to spin list if anyone wants to continue this) I think Nietzche was very clever and very young. He didn't live long enough to meet his match, someone who would have been able to see through his dazzling prose, and conversely his 'shocking' reputation, and actually engage him in the kind of debate that would have rubbed the rough edges off. Instead N. had to have imaginary debates with people who were dead (like Kant for example) - debates which he always won because he played both parts. Then the syphilis rotted his brain, and the chance was lost. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:26:37 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <199802121426.JAA08971@yfn.ysu.edu> Rob wrote: >Not an isolated incident. And, because of Avon's charisma, we, the >viewers, let him get away with it. But we resent every false step Tarrant >ever makes. Careful there, Rob, you're getting very close to being inducted into the Tarrant Nostra. That's a perceptive observation. Should I be sending Tarrant Nostra buttons to Deliverance? >It is easy to dislike Tarrant -- Steven Pacey can't stand >him, for a start -- Well, we forgive Steven because he's charming and sweet and autographed our Tarrant poster "To Del's Angels: ladies with exquisite taste." >but our reasons for disliking him any more than anyone >else simply don't stand up to rational questioning. I could read this all day. But I've been spending much too much time posting. Two more then I'm going to be quiet. I hope... Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:30:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Sarcophagus: his treatment of Cally, which sparked off his little > >tete-a-tete with Avon. He was suspicious of her and wanted answers, but > >he went totally the wrong way about it. > > I'm not sure why it is wrong for Tarrant to be open and honest in > his suspicions. He was an honest, forthright person. Depends what you mean by wrong. Morally wrong -- perhaps, perhaps not. I haven't given that very much thought. It was "wrong" in the sense that it was ineffective. No wonder Cally didn't mind him being honest and forthright: she could brush his questions off with very little effort. Avon was more of a threat, because he was more likely to find the secret she was hiding. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:41:09 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant: Heroic or selfish? Message-ID: <199802121441.JAA09471@yfn.ysu.edu> Avona wrote: >Sorry, I was insulted by one person who said she would ignore all my >mail since she thought I was pompous, or something like that. Maybe I am >a little, and I'm sorry for that, too. Find that on your email first >thing in the morning and see if it doesn't make you a little grouchy. I presume that was sent to you privately since I couldn't find it on the list. You've not had an easy welcome to the list. Discussions get hot and heavy, but I like to think that most of us aren't deliberately trying to insult each other. What is said gets misunderstood, and posts aren't always worded as tactfully as they could be (mainly because we are all rushing them out between real world responsibilities). I hope you will continue to enliven discussions. I haven't posted this much in a long time. Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:59:57 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-ID: <199802121459.JAA10228@yfn.ysu.edu> Narrelle wrote: >(As a person recently promoted to a supervisory position for the first >time, I am feeling acutely aware of the fact that different people require >different kinds of leadership and I'm still trying to work out how to >deliver the right approach for the right person. If it is this fraught >with hazard in the banking industry, how on earth must Tarrant have felt?) This is exactly why I have a lot of empathy for Tarrant's dealings with Vila. I was promoted to a supervisory position when I was in my early twenties. And I know the difficulties involved, which you've ably pointed out. And as you've also ably pointed out, what I was doing did not involve questions of survival. Tarrant was under a lot more pressure than I ever was, and I can't say that stopped me from making more early mistakes than he did. As is often the case in fandom, it's much easier to empathize with plights that you've suffered than it is with the opposite positions. So I can understand why victims of bullies are more likely to identify with Vila, while I tend to identify with Tarrant (in the "City" and "Moloch" situations). Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:56 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Alison Page CC: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's morals Message-ID: <34E31394.2FB8@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I think where N. went wrong was thinking that the alternatives in life were > (a) Traditional christian morality which demanded that the strong sacrifice > themselves completely for the weak and was nervous of vigour and joy > (b) His kind of proto-fascism which demanded that the strong were > completely cruel and ruthless, and treated the weak like cattle. Common misconception, because bad people usurped the ideas of the philosopher. Zarathustra, and the poems in The Gay Science, indicate that Nietzche thought the overman would be kindly disposed towards his fellow beings. Zarathustra was even kind to a snake until it turned against him. The idea, I guess, was that repression brings out the worst in many people. Beowulf would be an example of what Nietzche admired. Strong, lived vigorously, generous to his followers, and deadly to his enemies. And actually, N. was reluctant to guess exactly what the "overman" would be like, because he himself had not been able to achieeve that state. Mind you, N. was slowly losing his mind and this may show in some of his ideads. I doubt one man in a thousand would be improved by writing his own moral code. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:13:29 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Location, location, location Message-ID: <199802121513.KAA10613@yfn.ysu.edu> Susan wrote: >I've seen fan fiction >where Tarrant left the Federation because of being ordered to do something he >found extremely distasteful, but what if he left because he ended up in a >situation where he was in charge and had to choose between actions that would >both end badly. That could sour him on command and explain why someone who was >capable of leading would chose not to. That's definitely a possibility that has crossed my mind, and one that has been sorely neglected in fanfic. I think (memory is a terrible thing to lose) that I've been playing with the idea in one of my many gathering dust incompleted stories. What exploring the theme brought home to me (this was PGP) is that Tarrant would have had a lot of understanding for/ admiration of Blake, because Blake was making those kinds of difficult decisions. Tarrant's not shy about putting his own life at risk, but I think it is difficult for him to put others' lives at risk. He'd rather be the one taking the chances. Which also might explain his behavior in "City." Perhaps upset that he couldn't be the one going down to Keezarn and taking the risk contributed to his mood. While his temper appeared to be directed at Vila, it was restrained enough that I can believe it was taking the place of frustration directed at himself. Carol McCoy Yes, I know I answered one more post that I said I would. There goes any pretense of self discipline. I've certainly enjoyed all the ones I don't have time to get to: Sarah T's, the responses to Grace's questions, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:12:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Carol A. McCoy wrote: > making more early mistakes than he did. As is often the case in fandom, > it's much easier to empathize with plights that you've suffered than > it is with the opposite positions. So I can understand why victims > of bullies are more likely to identify with Vila, while I tend to > identify with Tarrant (in the "City" and "Moloch" situations). I tend to identify with Travis. Should I be worried? Iain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:07:07 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Gareth and BEAUTY Message-ID: <19980212.080354.9703.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> > Story."> > Sure you don't mean the picture on page 29? Julie Horner Penny's reply: VERY LARGE GRIN Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:00:22 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L]Monkey Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John asked: > Make that six, a Monkey mailing list what are the details please. The homepage for the list is http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/8153/mailinglist.html Heather. 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:26:53 -0600 (CST) From: "G. Robbins" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Where Are People/Location... Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jason wrote: >>I'm from out in the States.. in Iowa of all places. The local PBS station started showing Blake's 7 around last July or so, and I've been a fan since the first show.<< And Susan wrote: >>It's interesting to see where people are from. Three Iowans on the list, not too bad.<< Yeah, I'd like to say Iowa was the Mecca for Blake's 7, but that would be going a little too far, eh? All I can say is, I love knowing Blake's 7's on TV and can tune in every week at the same time and see it! Well, most of the time, anyway!! Grace Robbins robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins ---------------------------- I have a few ideas. Together with yours, we may have something. -Max DePree I like people who refuse to speak until they are ready to speak. -Lillian Hellman Trust is, if anything, as important as the ozone layer for our survival. -Sissela Bok ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:50:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Becker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] B7, Avon, and anything else I can think of. Message-ID: <19980212205056.26220.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, OPSBABE here. I'm new to the list. To introduce myself let me say that I discovered B7 (and Avon)last year when PBS started carrying it around here. Man was I hooked! I get so engrossed in the plots that I don't even notice the cheezy effects! Personally, I think that Paul Darrow as Avon kicks butt. He's good looking, (always a plus!) as cynical as yours truly, and basically the best anti-hero I've ever seen! Anybody notice the fireworks that sprang up between him and Cally in Sarcophogous? Okay, she was under the influence of someone or something else, but in Rumors of Death why didn't she want any part in his revenge? Jealousy over Anna sounds like a good reason. Not to mention the fact that the sexual tension between the two of them is so thick you can cut it with a knife! (Hmmm, I feel a story plot coming on. Now let's see ..... knife, cally, Avon. Hmmm?) Whoops! Sorry, momentary brain lapse. I have one little request to make of the list. Now, I know I'm new but what better way to keep me here and encourage others to join then by posting more fan fiction to the board? I dabble a little and be quite thankful for everyone's advice and criticisms. I know there are some writers out there among you! I've seen some of the work you put on-line. (Which in my humble opinion there isn't enough of!) Come on people lets get writing! Blake and friends need something constructive to do beside hanging around the Liberator drinking Soma all day! Look for my first story soon! I'm using one of my own creations. Her name is Lauren Radcliffe and she's about to give Avon a run for his money on cyncism! Until later! Jen B. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:36:23 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-Id: <199802122138.PAA00563@pemberton.magnolia.net> Narrelle wrote: >Yes, Tarrant bullied Vila to begin with. I don't think he ever had any >intention of trying to throw Vila off the ship; he was just trying out a >leadership technique which had perhaps worked before (he'd been the captain >of a ship of mercenaries, if I recall correctly) or maybe he just thought >it was a technique that might work. I wouldn't have thought he would have >known someone quite like Vila before... :-) Vila is unique, one has to admit! Something I think Carol has said before is that Tarrant told Vila he'd toss him off the ship and no one would stop him doing it--and Vila apparently believed him! Which makes one wonder just how his long-time crewmates Avon and Cally have been treating him... >I used to really dislike Tarrant. A lot. This episode used to be a main >reason for it. But now I watch it and see that whilst Tarrant made an >error of judgement and did something wrong, he also acknowledged it and >wanted to rectify it. Whether or not he is fond of Vila, trying to fix a >mistake is the right thing to do. Yes, and putting yourself into the other person's shoes can change your viewpoint as well. I wasn't keen on Tarrant either, the major sticking point being City. But then when you look at Vila's *and* Tarrant's pov in that scene, you can sympathize with both-- Vila: Why the hell is this bastard pushing me around like this? Tarrant: Why the hell is this bastard not willing to do his share of the work? >This is not to say that Tarrant became instantly perfect. They are a >somewhat imperfect bunch, if you hadn't noticed, and he fitted right on in >with the rest of them. :-) And makes them a lot more interesting to boot! Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:42:12 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-Id: <199802122144.PAA00752@pemberton.magnolia.net> Iain said: >I tend to identify with Travis. > >Should I be worried? Are you identifying with both of them, thus sporting a different patch over each eye? Then yes, you should be worried. And let us know when you're going to be driving anywhere too, okay? So we can get out of the way! Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:22:46 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se CC: space-city@world.std.com Subject: [B7l]: Spam Mail Message-ID: <34E3D8A6.1EE8@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After the recent invasion of spam messages, and the resultant hostile reaction, I`ve been browsing through various computer mags. March 1998 edition of PC Answers has a section on getting your own back on spammers. I don`t really know if it would be applicable to something like Lysator or Space-city, but I can forward on a copy of the mag if you are not able to get them in your locations. For that matter most of the technical stuff went clean over my head. I am not a fan of long technical words - simple instructions like "click on start, choose open, click on red sticking plaster, double click on stick" and voila! your sick computer is now mended. Does that sound like a gripe, or what? Pity the person it was aimed at is not likely to be a member of this list. He has let me down yet again. Because he keeps breaking appointments to come round and fix my machine, I spoke to him over the phone, and asked if I could ring him up later when I had my machine switched on and running, so that he could talk me through sorting out some of the problems this wretched machine has. No problem he says, I give a time band, ie between 7 & 8 pm tonight, that I would ring. Hands up who guessed that he was out when I phoned? Give yourself a brownie point. It is now 21.15 and he still has not got back to me. This is on TOP of him losing my original Windows 95 CD Rom!! Anyone with any ideas how I can get my own back on this @&%@#!! I`m going to go now and kick a door down! Bye for now Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:01:08 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: [B7L] Re: more about Monkey Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sarah T. wrote: >This is probably rather more than you wanted to know, but-- > [lots of interesting info snipped for space] A friend related some of the story, as he remembers it, to me - Monkey stole something from the gods that made him immortal, and to punish him they put a mountain on top of him. After many centuries it wore away and Monkey was free, then the adventures with Tripitaka, et al. start. Is this right? >It never occurred to me to try to match the characters to the B7 ones, >because offhand I don't see much resemblance, but hmm... I'd say Monkey is >a combination of Vila and Tarrant. He's very much a trickster, like Vila, >but he also has a certain kind of confidence in his abilities that is more >Tarrant-like than Vila-like, IMO. And he's a fighter, which Tarrant is and >Vila isn't. OK. I have this vague memory of the TV series (I'm not even sure if it was the same one everyone else has seen!) of Monkey being mischievous and cocky, as you describe. Dancing around Tripitaka as they walk along, jabbering breathlessly. [more snippage] >I have no idea why Tripitaka was played by a woman, but it might perhaps >have something to do with a Chinese opera convention in which certain >specific male characters (e.g. Chia Pao-yu in The Dream of the Red Chamber; >I'm not sure about Tripitaka) are traditionally played by female >impersonators or, in a modern film or TV production, by actual women. Could well be, I understand there are several cultures and theatre styles which use similar conventions - viz the panto thread we had (here? or on TheOtherList?) late last year. Perhaps further discussion of this could go to the spin list. ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Dunedin, New Zealand "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement, "Avon's gadget works" seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:44:23 EST From: DCsquared@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] New B7 page for beginning writers Message-ID: <1bffa8b4.34e38959@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am taking a class in web page design, and our assignment is to create a personal web page. Of course I must devote it to B7. My challenge was to find an area that hasn't already been covered so brilliantly by some of you. I have decided that it should cater to novice B7 fanfiction writers like myself. Some of you know that I just wrote my first story, Mercy's Bounty (which was published by the AVON fan club.) It was an exciting but also terrifying experience. I want this page to be an encouraging place for beginners to come and find info on the basics of everything B7. I also want to include a section where folks can post/read short sections of stories. These sections might be from beginers seeking advice, or from great stories already published so that we can analyze what makes them so great (with the author's permission of course). I want it to be a very safe and friendly place for those who are terrified to get started, but want to learn from the constructive opinions of others. Those of you who are fairly experienced authors/editors are welcome to drop by, but it will probably not have a lot of new and interesting material for you. However, there is a way that you can help. I would love to put in a section that includes advice from those of you who write or edit B7. It could be on any subject, such as: pet peeves, most common beginner mistakes, how NOT to write a Mary Jane, where to get a beta reader, whatever strikes your fancy. If you'd like to contribute, e-mail me at: DCsquared@aol.com I do not in any way claim to be a good enough writer to teach others. This is more of a home for novices who are looking for the comradarie and support of other novices. Hopefully, with some contributions from those more experienced, and links to other sites that do offer expert teaching, we can muddle through our B7 writing infancy and later produce something to give the rest of you a good read. Thanks for your time, Donna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:14:27 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant as hero and as bully Message-ID: <199802130014.TAA12971@yfn.ysu.edu> Iain wrote: >I tend to identify with Travis. > >Should I be worried? You should be safe as long as you avoid Avon and really deep commodes. The question is should the rest of us be worried? ;-) Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:52:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Baskerville To: space-city@world.std.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: SC: [B7l]: Spam Mail Message-Id: <19295.9802130152@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After the recent invasion of spam messages, and the resultant hostile > reaction, I`ve been browsing through various computer mags. Believe me, dealing with spam is really *really* best left to those with sufficient technical knowledge. Much spam does not originate from where it appears to, and reacting to it may simply cause aggrovation to an innocent party/domain. Forensic examination of routing information takes considerable experience. Many of the actions I have seen people take in response to spam are basically net.abuse in themselves. "Getting your own back" can blow up in your face and seriously upset innocent parties. In recent times, I have found that a calm and informed complaint to the correct place (the determination of which is non-trivial) is more often than not effective. Spam affects us all. It is best delt with at the ISP level, however. If your own ISP isn't taking it seriously, asking pointed questions might make them realise that it is in their own interest so to do. So if you get spam, ask your ISP some questions: o Are all your MTA's (mail routing machines) safe against relay-rape? (if not, they should deal with it as a matter of extreme urgency. If they can't get their sendmail program so configured, they should visit http://www.sendmail.org or use Exim instead http://www.exim.org) [if they're using NT instead of proper unix MTA's they're probably screwed on this front so change ISP!] o Are all your MTA's rejecting mail from broken sites? (eg no reverse DNS lookup) o Are you using the MAPS RBL (Mail Abuse Protection System = MAPS) (if not, get them to check out http://maps.vix.com/rbl - over 100 ISPs are using this to protect their customers from spam) If you are getting spam via mailing lists, (such as majordomo lists), there are many config settings available to protect such lists; for example a modern majordomo installation can be set to: o reject postings from non members (this can usually be done even if a digest exists such that members of normal AND digest list can post) o conceal the list from a "lists" command sent to majordomo (this helps prevent spammers finding the list address) [you do this with the noadvertise settings] o reject headers commonly found in spam; eg "make money fast" in subject or the classic X-UIDL: header put in by the commonest bulk mailing program [use taboo_headers settings] I protect my own domains with such features and in my case this is sucessful in rejecting a good 90-95% of the spam aimed at them. Robert Baskerville Robert@Baskerville.Net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:57:55 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: "Lorna B." CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis Message-ID: <34E3C4C4.3309@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lorna B. wrote: > > Iain said: > >I tend to identify with Travis. > > > >Should I be worried? > > Are you identifying with both of them, thus sporting a different patch over > each eye? > > Then yes, you should be worried. And let us know when you're going to be > driving anywhere too, okay? So we can get out of the way! > > Lorna B. No, it would be two patches over one eye. Bizarre looking, but not actually blinding. :^) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:37:41 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: [B7L] Re: [Identifying with Travis Message-Id: <199802130439.WAA23506@pemberton.magnolia.net> Helen said: >No, it would be two patches over one eye. Bizarre looking, but not >actually blinding. >:^) Symmetry, symmetry! Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:43:02 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]Monkey Message-ID: In message <16860151DCD@uan1.library.nottingham.ac.uk>, Ruth Imeson writes >Cylan wrote: >> >> I remember watching Monkey, so there are at least two of us. >> > >Make that 3 of us. Monkey was something of a cultural highlight in my >family. > >For those who have never experienced this wonder, Bravo is reshowing >the series (in the UK). > Thank you, thank you! I loved Monkey, I'd enjoy seeing it again. Day and time? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #45 *************************************