From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #31 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/31 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 31 Today's Topics: Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blake and Manipulation Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Cult [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Re: [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) [B7L] vilification Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Re: FW: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods [B7L] Avon in Red Dwarf Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult [B7L] Horizon Letterzine Re: [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) re:[B7L]: Avon Ads Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:17:53 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: "blakes7" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blake and Manipulation Message-Id: <199801310419.WAA05980@pemberton.magnolia.net> Patti said: >List diplomat? What's it pay? I AM an Avon fan, after all. LOL! A few credits more than Vila's position--on the floor, prone. Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:18:54 -0500 (EST) From: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As to the whole cult/religion thing: Well, as I recall (vaguely, so get ready with the spikes and hammers), the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a religion, when you decide to leave, they may disapprove, they will almost certainly try to convince you to stay, and they may request that you not stop by again after leaving the community, but that's it. In a cult, if you decide to leave, the entire community will harass you until you rejoin, or they will engage in a "dirty tricks" campaign to ruin your entire secular life. Additionally, many religions frown heavily upon being forced to have sex with the leaders or work 12 hours a day and turn over everything you make. Personally, I have very little patience with religion (or, I should clarify) with the way many people improperly use religious belief to justify all manner of awfulness. Most of my neighbors are orthodox Jews, and although, to be honest, I find the entire concept of not using the phone, or scissors, or the lights, etc., one day a week to be, well, questionable, it is what they choose to do and as such, I have no right to tell them that they're incorrect to do so. And the few friends I do have who are born again Christians I can recall several er, um, lively, discussions concerning the eventual disposition of my soul (if I have one). But I digress. And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught, swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" Alex At 12:20 PM on 1/30/98, penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote: > John wrote: > **** > Perhaps, using the current terminolgy, we should refer to it as a New > Religious Movement, though the fact that it had been around a century of > two (I forget how long exactly) might belie that phrase. A bit like LDS > really -- considered a cult (or NRM) for a long time, it is now entering > the religious mainstream, in part beacuse it has been around for nearly > 200 > years. > ****** > We are 158 years old this April, John. Some still call us a cult, which > befuddles me since people join and leave the church all the time. Nice > to know there are enlightened individuals, such as yourself, who know > otherwise. > > Then again, you are a B7 fan, so, how much more enlightened can you get? > > > Penny > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------------------------------------- To fall in love is to create a religion that has a fallible god. -- Jorge Luis Borges -- ---------------------------------------- website: http://www.ziplink.net/~adering ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:39:04 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) Message-ID: <19980131163904.34084@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:18:54AM -0500, Alex Dering wrote: > And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing > an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught, > swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh > PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" No, they tend to latch onto the "space" thing rather than the "computer" thing: Paul Darrow has done ads in the UK as Avon, for a car, and for some fast-food chain, but I don't know if he's done computers. Tom Baker as Doctor Who did some computer advertisements, though. With Lalla Ward. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:51:56 GMT From: kawm@dove.mtx.net.au (Ken Minne) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-ID: <34d218fd.11212822@mail.mtx.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good day all, On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:46:50 -0700, John Doherty wrote: >>I disagree with Jackie about comparing Vargas' organisation to a >>proper religion. It was prefectly comparable to the Holy Inquisition, >>the Taliban ( of Afganistan ) or any number of other loony cults. >>They may be barbaric, brutal, deluded and led by a megalomainiac liar, >>but none of that ever stops it from being a religion. > >The Inquisition was not a religion, just an aberant wing within a religion. > I am not too sure what the Taliban is, I'll have to go look that up. The Taliban are a Islamic faction that rules a fair chunk of Afghanistan. Their doctrine is similar to that of the Ayatollahs of Iran, only more extreme ( no woman may work outside the home, strict dress codes etc ) >Vargas's religion is, indeed, much more comparable to a cult -- and perhaps >that was what Nation was trying to get at when he wrote the story. I have >always looked at the drug he feeds his people as a "mind control" analogy. > Like it or not, cults are "proper" religions. Even mainstream religions use force, intimidation, and lies in their dealings with their believers. The Holy Inquistion was a legitimate part of the Christrian Church of the time, even if the modern church is backing away from it now. Any objection to a cult would apply equally to a mainstream religion that shared the objectionable characteristic. >Perhaps, using the current terminolgy, we should refer to it as a New >Religious Movement, though the fact that it had been around a century of >two (I forget how long exactly) might belie that phrase. A bit like LDS >really -- considered a cult (or NRM) for a long time, it is now entering >the religious mainstream, in part beacuse it has been around for nearly 200 >years. > >-- John > My turn now >;-), who or what are the LDS? Catch you later, Walter Minne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:41:52 +1000 From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980131224152.007bc230@wire.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Elise said: >I'm not sure whom we could cast as B7's Loki. You'd have to have some weird teleport accident that mixed Avon and Vila up as one person... or maybe have Servalan mix with someone a touch less poisonous. I've cast Blake as Prometheus in a song before now... but which gods in general might they be most like...? A can see Servalan as Circe, and Dayna could well be Diana. If you stretch it a bit, you could cast Blake as Osiris and Travis as Set. Considering Osiris' dismemberment at the hands of Set in the original story, there may be at last an explanation for Blake's apparent lack of interest in Jenna.... Relle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax "Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:21:40 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Wrote: >> Perhaps, using the current terminology, we should refer to it as a New >> Religious Movement, though the fact that it had been around a century of >> two (I forget how long exactly) might belie that phrase. A bit like LDS >> really -- considered a cult (or NRM) for a long time, it is now entering >> the religious mainstream, in part because it has been around for nearly >> 200 >> years. To which Penny replied: > ****** > We are 158 years old this April, John. Some still call us a cult, which > befuddles me since people join and leave the church all the time. Nice > to know there are enlightened individuals, such as yourself, who know > otherwise. Not wishing to sound disrespectful in anyway, but who the hell are LDS? Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:38:11 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn wrote: > No, they tend to latch onto the "space" thing rather than the "computer" > thing: Paul Darrow has done ads in the UK as Avon, for a car, and for some > fast-food chain, but I don't know if he's done computers. Tom Baker as > Doctor Who did some computer advertisements, though. With Lalla Ward. Recently (in the last two or three years that is) all the (then) surviving Doctors did an ad for the new Polo, it featured them all peering into said car, looking bemused at how much space there appeared to be inside. Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:56:13 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] vilification Message-ID: <34D31F6D.637D@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa sez: >Might I add that it's also unnecessary to vilify *any* of the >characters. Can we vilify the ones we really, really can't stand? As long as it isn't Tarrant, yes. For some reason the Tarranostra seem to take it all very personally! Fran M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:48:13 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-ID: <886257089.1027649.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather 'insert text here' Smith said - > Not wishing to sound disrespectful in anyway, but who the hell are LDS? I was thinking the Church of the Latter Day Saints = Mormons. Is that right? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:50:52 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: FW: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Louise Rutter wrote: > > Sorry, could you point out the scenes in the series where Blake > >claims the moral high-ground for himself so we could discuss them? As > > you want a specific example, how about the exchange between Blake and Avon > in the London computer room, when Blake is so scathing about Avon's plans > to look after himself? When Blake gives his speech about how he isn't free > until all men can think and speak freely? > I'm fairly sure that Blake is feeling very morally superior right then, and > probably justifiably. But for someone who holds such high morals, Blake can > conveniently forget them when it suits him. Well, in that scene, I think the moral indignation is directed at the Federation. The Freedom for Men (this is either like Hairclub for Men or a male hygiene product 8-) bit is vehement and about the Federation. Then Blake immediately backs off and says "You asked me what I plan to do. What you do is up to yourselves." So he's not making a judgment about whatever they plan to do. When he says "you don't really believe that" to Avon, IMO, it's more of a challenge to Avon's myopia... like if a some independently wealthy guy was to say to me "Everyone has the same chance to buy a Ferrari as I have" I might question his grasp of fiscal relaity, without it being a moral judgment. My favorite Blake on the High Ground is in "Hostage" when he says "If I can't, I might as well be a Federation slave like everybody else. As might you all." 8-) I like this because it's such a nice zip about coawrdice when he's the only one taking a risk, and it's totally superfluous--everyone has agreed to head for Xbar, except Avon. I'm not sure, but I like to think of it as a reminder that if he hadn't had the guts to try to escape on the London and then go to Cygnus Alpha, they would all be literally slaves of the Federation. Which is true, but not nice to say. If I can go back to your original point, that the excess manipulation by Blake in fan fic is a result of its subtlety on the show, compared to Avon's blatant manipulation, combined with a penchant on Blake's part to become morally indignant...I don't know. In part, I guess so, and yet the theory doesn't seem to cover the whole question. The equation of subtle + expressing aversion to activity = stories highlighting activity, doesn't hold up in other circumstances. For example, Avon often seizes the intellectual highground and makes as many mistakes as anyone, which are not always obvious in the series or at least only as abvious as the Blake indignation moments, but there isn't a huge body of fan fiction about it. So I guess I'm back at the double standard thing. On the other hand, I thought for a while maybe it's that each writer thought she had made this brilliant discovery for herself and sat down to write about it. That would account for the mass within the genre and sort of go along with your theory. But it would mean that the writer never read any other stories and was totally cut off from fan debate. On the other other hand, when reading in other fandoms I've also seen a lot of interest in manipulation as a theme, whether it seems inherent to the universe or not. So maybe it's one of those ideas that's big with fan writers regardless of canon...like slash. I can't think of another example. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:04:59 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Message-ID: In message <3.0.1.32.19980131224152.007bc230@wire.net.au>, Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris writes > >If you stretch it a bit, you could cast Blake as Osiris and Travis as Set. >Considering Osiris' dismemberment at the hands of Set in the original >story, there may be at last an explanation for Blake's apparent lack of >interest in Jenna.... > There is a piece of fanfic along those lines, although it's the Federation, and not Travis in particular. There's this quote from Horizon: KOMMISSAR: So you're a Resister. Some malfunction of the genes, I suppose. It throws up a Resister about every hundred thousand. Mostly they're detected in infancy. which is rather suggestive as to what the Federation might do to a Resister who can't be simply executed. After all, you wouldn't want those faulty genes to spread, would you? Someone who's got the full run of Oblaque can give the citation. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:25:57 +0800 From: Chris To: "Blake's 7 Mailing List" Subject: [B7L] Avon in Red Dwarf Message-ID: <34D35EA5.ABA8B75@nw.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi this is the first message i've posted to the list even though i've been subscribed for about 2 months. Well i just wanted to say i was watching an old episode of Red Dwarf the other night called "STASIS LEAK" where there was a picture that lister was showing the of him marrying Kochanski and i noticed that Paul Darrow was also in the picture in a best man sort of role, I just wondered if anyone else had noticed this. My Dr Who website : http://www.internet-club.com/australia/time_vortex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:17:22 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-Id: <199801311845.MAA27386@pemberton.magnolia.net> Alex said: >And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about >doing an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten >caught, swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh >PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" LOL! What an image! I'd like to see Vila doing an ad for beer or whiskey, myself. Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:50:49 +0000 From: Reuben To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-ID: <34D32C33.1524@reuben.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Dering wrote: > > But I digress. > > And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing > an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught, > swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh > PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" > I'd LOVE to see that. Kinda like those 80's computer ads with Tom Baker and Lila Ward in full costume. Really funny to see in retrospect. And now to toatally go off topic... I watched Mission Impossible last night and was forced to cringe over their total lack of computer knowledge and trying to sound high tech. (...and I'll need one of those new RISC based Pentium P6 laptops...) How many flaws can you spot in that phrase. Especially funny since he ended up using a PowerBook 5300 (at least the RISC part is right then) Reuben (appolgies for going so far off thread, but I just needed to yell about that) Herfindahl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:48:57 -0500 (EST) From: Sondra Sweigman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Horizon Letterzine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Since I asked yesterday if anyone in the US had received LZ #21 yet, I thought it only right to mention that my copy finally showed up today. Sondra ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:52:44 +0000 From: Reuben To: Kathryn Andersen Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon Ads (was Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult) Message-ID: <34D32CA6.7225@reuben.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: Paul Darrow has done ads in the UK as Avon, for a car, and for some > fast-food chain, I'd love to see those ads. Anyone have any of them on tape? Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:40:48 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re:[B7L]: Avon Ads Message-ID: <34D42700.733E@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:18:54AM -0500, Alex Dering wrote: > > And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing > > an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught, > > swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh > > PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" > > No, they tend to latch onto the "space" thing rather than the "computer" > thing: Paul Darrow has done ads in the UK as Avon, for a car, and for some > fast-food chain, but I don't know if he's done computers. Tom Baker as > Doctor Who did some computer advertisements, though. With Lalla Ward. Are we talking "on-screen" ads here or "voice overs"? "on screen ads" include Hamlet, American Express and Wimpey. "voice overs" include Halogen Hob cookers, Airtours, Peugeot, Cellnet (the X-files send ups). Plus all the BBC2 programme ads from the last year or so. There was another car ad for a different manufacturer (BMW or other German one). There have been others that I cannot remember off hand- no doubt I will as soon as I`ve hit *send*. He has also done ads on and for Talk Radio, as well as a radio ad for Halfords (I think it was for them, I only caught it twice, both times too late to stick an audio tape in machine). Which one did he *do* as Avon? Bye Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I started thinking about it and I realized that there's a vastly untapped market for Blake's 7 stars and advertising. Blake: American Express Travelers Checks. Blake: After the Andromedan Fleet Invasion, I lost everything: my ship, my friends, everything. Fortunately, I had American Express Travelers Checks. Good at over one million locations in the Federation, and easily replaced if lost or stolen. How else could I have set everything up on Gauda Prime? Avon: Hallmark Cards Avon: When you're as cold and calculating as I am, people sometimes don't believe you (stop to shoot someone) when you try to say you're sorry. (shoot two more troopers). That's why I depend on Hallmark Cards (punch woman in stomach, poke man in eye). The right card for every occasion. Orac, teleport now. Servalan: Clorox Bleach Servalan: As Supreme Commander and President of the Terran Federation, I need to always look my best. Whether it's while waiting for pick up on the planet Saron or while meeting mad scientists in out of the way locations to pick up secret weapons, I need my whites to stay their whitest. That's why I depend on Clorox to keep me white, bright, and out of sight. Gan: Tranquilizers Gan: Sometimes, I flip out. Thank the Federation for Valium. (pops two, swills them down with some water). It keeps me calm, so I can do my best, without killing anyone. Vila: Locksmiths Vila: Now, when I lock myself out of my transport (locksmith working on lock of car) and I don't have the tools to trip the lock, I call my friendly, (locksmith opens door and Vila smiles) neighborhood locksmith. Quick, convenient service, at a reasonable price. (Vila gets in and drives off without paying). Cally: Psychic Friends Hotline Cally: Should I follow Blake? Will Servalan try to kill me? Sometimes, I, like the rest of you, need some guidance, a friend to turn to. At the Psychic Friends Hotline, I can get confidential, helpful, friendly advice, when I need it. $3.99 a minute, for entertainment purposes only. Dayna: Self Defense Courses Dayna: It's a dangerous world out there. (Someone grabs her from behind. She throws him over her shoulder. Cut to him falling off a cliff and bouncing, a la HOSTAGE). A girl's got to protect herself. (Knife-wielding maniac approaches. Dayna breaks his leg and kills him). At the Mellanby School of Self Defense we teach you ALL the moves. (Throng of troopers close in) From simple holds and throws to ways to kill someone with a rubber band, we'll keep you safe. (Fade to black, sound of shots. Then cut back to Dayna, standing amidst a pile of dead and wounded troopers. Dayna winks.) See you there. Travis: Optometrists Shop Travis: When you're a big, bad thug for the Federation, like I am, you need everything working perfectly. That's why (Travis walks into an optometrist shop) you need to keep your eyes in their best shape. So twice a year, I take my left eye in for a check up, just to make sure. (Travis puts his fake arm on a man's shoulder. The man turns around and it's...) Hal Mellanby. How are you, you old space dog? Checking the supply of sunglasses? (Travis turns back to camera). See you at the optometrists. Or else you might never see anything again. (Travis shoots camera). Soolin: Gun Club Soolin: (Shoots troopers left and right for thirty seconds. Voice over....) At the Lexington Gun Club, you'll learn the right way to shoot. Reasonable prices, good people, lots of guns, plenty of accident insurance. Minutes from Central London. Slave and Orac: Triple A Slave: My humble apologies, but Scorpio appears to be unable to move. I am trying to rectify the fault. Orac: The fault is that you don't have a membership in Triple A. If you did, we could be receiving help from one of their many qualified roadside assistance crews and be on our way by now. Slave: I'm most terribly sorry. Orac: Oh, do be quiet. Any suggestions for Zen or Jenna? Alex ---------------------------------------- A man I am, cross'd with adversity. - Act IV, Scene 1 Two Gentlemen of Verona William Shakespeare - ---------------------------------------- website: http://www.ziplink.net/~adering ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:54:54 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980131195452.006a6d24@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, "Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Avon ("Blake") Does anyone here know about the Myers-Briggs personality preference theory, which divides humans into 16 different types of people, and 4 different temperaments? Well, let me suggest that Blake's 7 is the classic example of character's Myers-Briggs temperaments. In many ways, these characters' temperaments are so clear and apparent, it's almost as if Terry Nation knew about Myers-Briggs. Avon's quote in "Blake" is too perfect to be coincidental. For those that know quite a bit about MBTI, as I do, you'll probably be very interested in this. Blake: Idealist, Avon: Rational, Vila: Artisan, Jenna: Artisan, Cally: Idealist, Gan: Guardian, ORAC: Rational, Zen: Guardian, Servalan: Artisan, Travis: Artisan, Tarrant: Artisan, Dayna: Artisan, Soolin: Artisan, Slave: Guardian. The reason why there is only one human guardian in the group is because Blake's 7 is a show about rebellion and the hopeful destruction of order. Guardians crave rules and order, whereas artisans rebel against it. Gan is a rebel because he was pushed too far when his lover was killed, but now he finds a new duty, a new loyalty - Blake. The Idealist-Rational difference was the reason for Blake and Avon's disagreements, and they are so typical of NF-NT conflict. And when Tarrant comes into the picture, it is the difference in their temperament's core needs that creates problems between Avon and Tarrant. Anyway, I've written a lot more about this and I plan to put something together for an in-depth analysis of the Blake's 7 characters and their relationships with one another. Feel free to write me if you would like to discuss it. -Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 01:20:53 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980201012014.006867c8@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Adam L. Fuller wrote: >Does anyone here know about the Myers-Briggs personality preference >theory, which divides humans into 16 different types of people, and 4 >different temperaments? Well, let me suggest that Blake's 7 is the >classic example of character's Myers-Briggs temperaments. I think most fandoms, this one included, have extensively Myers-Briggsed their characters in recent years. It's hard to resist, and such fun to argue over who is which type. So -- which side of the INTJ vs. INTP camp do you fall into for Avon? Personally, I place him as an INTP who wants people to think he's an INTJ. Blake, probably an ENFJ. And you're right; they're pretty typical of NT-NF conflicts. (I'm a strong INTJ myself, and NFs drive me crazy even when I like them.) I haven't thought about the others as much. Agree that Tarrant, Dayna, and Soolin have SP written all over them, though Dayna's a stronger P than the other two. Tarrant's probably ESTP, your typical man-of-action type. Soolin, probably ISTP. Dayna's an F; I don't get a strong sense of polarization on the I-E scale from her, but probably closer to ISFP than ESFP. Vila's more a typical ESFP. Cally, maybe an INFJ? Jenna, another ESTP or ISTP, not sure which. I don't see Servalan as an SP temperament, though. Closer to an SJ, with that urge to control and regulate things, but she's got a big dose of NT as well. In fact, I'd probably place her as an ENTJ, not too strongly polarized on the S-N scale, so having some crossover with the ESTJ. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #31 *************************************