From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #305 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/305 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 305 Today's Topics: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] Re: ethics Re: [B7L] "Good and evil Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon Re: [B7L] Re:Servalan tape RE: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Re: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] "Good and evil [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes [B7L] Times change, people don't Re: [B7L] Good - Bad - I'm the one with the DSV. [B7L] Blake's Legend Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon Re: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] "Good and evil [B7L] The Price of Justice Re: [B7L] In laws and out laws... [B7L] oak leaves multiply Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Re: [B7L] "Good and evil [B7L] SC: The Price of Justice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:17:15 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <19981210081715.19631@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:40:10PM +0000, Julia Jones wrote: > In message <85c41ce6.366db5a6@aol.com>, LordRab@aol.com writes > >In a message dated 98-12-08 11:15:51 EST, msdelta@magnolia.net writes: > > > >>I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on > >>posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9 > >>episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot > >>points in advance. > > > >Good Point Lorna...sorry, but I thought it was a rerun, I watch the Star Trek > >stuff so rarely that I just didn't consider it night be a new episode. I hope > >we didn't ruin the story for you more than the writers already have. > > > Erm... even the reruns in the US may be on before the episode is shown > on a non-pay channel in other countries. As I know only too well after > my recent journeying back and forth across the Atlantic. Indeed. Australia is often a year behind, for any given US series. But I wasn't worried about Voyager, because I don't watch it anyway. Ah well, at least most of us have seen all the episodes of Blake's 7 - haven't we? Kathryn A. -=-=-=-=-=- Law of Type 40 TARDIS location: You can go anywhere in Time and Space, as long as it is not where you intended. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:50:09 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: ethics Message-ID: <366F28D1.59A@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sarah Thompson8@genie.com wrote: > I do like the fact that moral choices in B7 are seldom cut and dried and can > often be argued either way, Blake's decision at Star One being the most > obvious example. I find it interesting that fans so often seem to want to > disambiguate these situations-- for instance, arguing that Blake was either > a saint or a monster, as the case may be-- when the ambiguity is the very > thing that I find interesting. > It is human nature to want a clear decision. ie. Is that large animal going to eat me or not? Do I choose fight or flight? If it weren't for the many ambiguous situations in the series, hundreds of fanfics would never have been written. Like an itch wanting to be scratched, the ambiguous plotlines and unsatisfying conclusions just beg fan writers to step in and finish the story. We can only be glad that Servalan never achieved her quest for total order. What a dull backdrop an orderly, bureaucratic federation would make for a dramatic series. Sample blurb: Coming next week: His coworkers send out for coffee service when Permits Clerk Tynus get promoted to level GS-4. Don't miss the next exciting episode of: Civil Servants in Space! Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:00:36 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] "Good and evil Message-ID: <366F4764.301B@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una McCormack wrote: > Although I like the strong suggestion given in 'Breakdown' from Julian > Glover's character (Kane?) that Blake and crew are wrong because they are > trying to destroy the main force for order in the galaxy. This is similar > to themes explored in 'Star One': whether the destruction of something bad > is a worse evil than letting it stand, This theme was explored on Xena: Warrior Princess. The fates gave her a chance to live an alternate life free of bloodshed: but after the initial delight in being a "normal femme" she discovered this world was overrun with barbarian warlords and people were enslaved and far worse off than in the world where she had been the wicked warlord, but basically kept the hordes of them in check. Buffy: Vampire Slayer did a similar theme. Cordelia said "I wish Buffy had never come to Sunnydale!" and a fairy granted her wish. Naturally, the alternate world was a terrible place, overrun with vampires and demons and all the good guys gone vamp. In Blakes 7, we never got to see what the results would have been had Star One been destroyed. Perhaps a galaxy overrun by slimy Andromedeans? Or what if Sulu's coup had succeeded? A worse overlord than Servalan? Have other series done this "what if" theme? Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:52:30 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <366F457E.28FD@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LordRab@aol.com wrote: > If this were say, the dark ages you could easily be judged in many > circles as immoral for merely knowing how to read and write instead of staying > perenially pregnant. A good point about standards changing. And I agree with another post (by ?) that in another few hundred years, the human species may be sufficiently enlightened to find torture tests conducted on "animals lower on the food chain than us" to be as morally abhorent as tests conducted on fellow humans by Nazis, Japanese, Spanish Inquisitors, Mayans, etc. etc. etc. thoughout humans' barbaric and bloody history. I hope that the Blakes7 universe does not come to pass - where Servalan is still conducting viral experments on humans. (Project Avalon) > Anyway, my real point is that we should not waste our time judging at all. um... no, we do need to judge according to our own hearts - and attempt to guide others to the right path. I say guide, not coerce, drag, bludgeon, torture or subject them to "righteous witch tests". Setting a good example is the all time best way to make your point. A huge part of Blake's leadership was in his actions, not his words: he would never send others in where he was not prepared to go himself, and first. Pat P PS. Rab, Please snip and reply only to the relevant part of a post. It saves us lots of scrolling. Most of us are pretty good at keeping up with the list and follow the threads as they weave. We'll remember the gist of the entire subject you're responding to. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:00:52 EST From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry I am so late responding to this. Is Cally telepathic? It always seemed obvious to me. Shadow is an excellent example of this. For instance, when Blake is being cross-examined by the Terra Nostra boss, Blake bluffs and tells him the Liberator has 4 shuttles. Cally, who is still on the ship while Blake and others are on the planet, must read his mind and repeat this answer to the boss. One of the really interesting points of this episode is that telepathy is not without its drawbacks. This is why she is in such danger from the alien that is using Orac's carrier waves to try and enter their dimension. Indeed, the alien succeeds in imprisoning Cally, perhaps within her own thoughts. However, her telepathy saves her in the end as the moondisks bring her out of this after she is teleported to the planet where they are grown. The moondisks are also telepathic and give her a feeling of belonging, of not being alone, which she has missed since leaving Auron. This psychic isolation has been one of the terrible prices Cally has had to pay for living with plain humans, and the beautiful moondisks give her a brief respite from this. Indeed, since she ends up keeping one of them, perhaps she never needs to be so alone again. Now, for Poetic Pat, to whom I promised another poem, here is one based on this episode, also printed in Gambit 14. Moon Disks by Cally translated from the original Auronar by Gail Gawlik Shiny, polished pebbles, Gems upon the sand, Gather all around me, Whisper all they can. Fill my mind with kinship, Touch me with their love, Break through isolation Gently from above. Now I have the knowledge, Power to deny, Stop the evil darkness, End his evil lies. Shiny, polished pebble, Gem upon my hand, I will keep you with me, Mem'ries of your land. I hoped you liked it, Pat. Gail G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:13:52 EST From: LordRab@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <3b039ce7.366f5890@aol.com> Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_913266832_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_913266832_boundary Content-ID: <0_913266832@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-12-09 23:31:20 EST, pussnboots@geocities.com writes: > Rab says:>> Anyway, my real point is that we should not waste our time judging at all. Pat replies:>um... no, we do need to judge according to our own hearts - and attempt >to guide others to the right path. We may all judge according to our hearts but since we can never know all the facts (ie. walk a mile in another man's shoes) our conclusions are based on an incomplte picture, which brings us back to Avon's original quote which started all this: "I rarely comment on the ethics of others". Let your heart judge and act accordingly but please keep your opinions to yourself. Which happily reminds me of another favorite Avon retort (to Vila): "It's not your right to an opinion that I object to, it's the fact that you think we are all entitled to your opinion that is irritating" But that's just my opinion. Rab --part0_913266832_boundary Content-ID: <0_913266832@inet_out.mail.geocities.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc03.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:31:20 -0500 Received: from samantha.lysator.liu.se (samantha.lysator.liu.se [130.236.254.202]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA18991; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from list@localhost) by samantha.lysator.liu.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05174; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:30:41 +0100 (MET) Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:30:41 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: samantha.lysator.liu.se: list set sender to blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se using -f Sender: pussnboots@geocities.com Message-ID: <366F457E.28FD@geocities.com> Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:52:30 -0800 From: Pat Patera Reply-To: pussnboots@geocities.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character References: Resent-Message-ID: <"Ypa_CB.A.yQB.v50b2"@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Resent-From: blakes7@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15507 X-Loop: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Precedence: list Resent-Sender: blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit LordRab@aol.com wrote: > If this were say, the dark ages you could easily be judged in many > circles as immoral for merely knowing how to read and write instead of staying > perenially pregnant. A good point about standards changing. And I agree with another post (by ?) that in another few hundred years, the human species may be sufficiently enlightened to find torture tests conducted on "animals lower on the food chain than us" to be as morally abhorent as tests conducted on fellow humans by Nazis, Japanese, Spanish Inquisitors, Mayans, etc. etc. etc. thoughout humans' barbaric and bloody history. I hope that the Blakes7 universe does not come to pass - where Servalan is still conducting viral experments on humans. (Project Avalon) > Anyway, my real point is that we should not waste our time judging at all. um... no, we do need to judge according to our own hearts - and attempt to guide others to the right path. I say guide, not coerce, drag, bludgeon, torture or subject them to "righteous witch tests". Setting a good example is the all time best way to make your point. A huge part of Blake's leadership was in his actions, not his words: he would never send others in where he was not prepared to go himself, and first. Pat P PS. Rab, Please snip and reply only to the relevant part of a post. It saves us lots of scrolling. Most of us are pretty good at keeping up with the list and follow the threads as they weave. We'll remember the gist of the entire subject you're responding to. --part0_913266832_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:20:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII And a second oak leaf goes to Carol McCoy for the following intelligent observation - > I'd agree. He also had a degree of maturity that the others lacked. > He was competent and dependable. It was Gan who ended up in the leadership > position when the London's prisoners were dumped on Cygnus Alpha. I > especially liked the quiet way he assumed that responsibility. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:29:37 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Servalan tape Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 09 Dec, Steve Rogerson wrote: > Pat asked re the Jacqueline Pearce in conversation tape: "Steve could > you look see if it has an identifiying marks -smile- so that we > OutWorlders might possibly get one - or - a thought- is it the same one > you have advertised on your page Judith?" > > It gives the address: Maximum Power, 26 Chalsey Road, Brockley, London > SE4 1YW > > I don't know who else is selling it, but I expect Horizon is. From what I've heard, he can be pretty slow mailing the tapes out. (Possibly due to work or whatever) I'm indecisive as to whether to remove the data from my web page or not, but I am reluctant to do currency conversion for Australians on this one simply because I can't be sure when things will arrive. If anyone who has ordered one recently can tell me how quickly it appeared, I'd appreciate knowing. Things may have improved. I'm still happy to do Australian orders (via Pat) for anything sold by Horizon, Avon and Sheelagh Wells. For new list members, this is a free service that Pat and I run to allow Australians order stuff from the UK without having to pay currency conversion charges. You still get landed with air mail costs and the lousey exchange rate, but you don't have to pay to convert your money as well. (I appreciate it if you order something from me at the same time, but it isn't compulsory) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:39:30 +-100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: "Blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: RE: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Message-ID: <01BE2420.FFE1E3E0@cmg71700449> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gail G. wrote: >Sorry I am so late responding to this. Is Cally telepathic? It always >seemed >obvious to me. Shadow is an excellent example of this. For instance, >when >Blake is being cross-examined by the Terra Nostra boss, Blake bluffs >and tells >him the Liberator has 4 shuttles. Cally, who is still on the ship while >Blake >and others are on the planet, must read his mind and repeat this >answer to the boss. Cally didn't read his mind. She told him telepathically to say her name when she reached the right number and then started counting (still in Blake's head). Blake obligingly did so when she reached four. Another proof that Cally could send thoughts to but not receive them from non-telepaths. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:54:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kathryn Andersen said: >Why not? They happen to be the only standards you have, the ones you >have now. It makes just as much sense to say that what is wrong in >one age is right in another as to say that what is wrong on a Tuesday >is right on a Monday. Sorry, can't agree with that one. Times change, mores change (or, at least, *acceptability* changes). And what one person says is right on a Monday, *another* person will say is wrong on the same Monday. However, I *would* agree that the standards you have now are the only ones that you can work from. I wouldn't necessarily use them as a means of judging what happened in the past. >Surely a vegetarian who is one for moral reasons, thinks that animals >suffered just as much when eaten in the 12th century as they do now, and >therefore it is just as wrong to do, no matter when in history you happen >to be. If he had been transported back in time to the 12th century, he >wouldn't suddenly start eating meat, would he? Maybe for a while. Maybe food shortages and the reality of famine might make her willing to eat anything. I think it's (probably) meaningless to talk about vegetarianism in a 12th century context (but I haven't carried out a social history and I don't know of one). Vegetarianism is a moral stance taken these days in a situation of relative wealth which enables people to make more specific choices about how they lead their lives. I don't know if what we would describe these days as vegetarianism (i.e., as you put it, moral reasons surrounding cruelty to animals) would necessarily be meaningful. I'm sure you would find people who didn't eat meat. I don't necessarily think that the rationales for this behaviour would be the same as the ones we have now. Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:11:36 GMT From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray) To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] "Good and evil Message-Id: <199812101111.LAA25850@dux1.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Pat P, You gave examples from 'Xena: Warrior Princess' and 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' about a "what if" theme, and wondered if there were any other series who deal with this. One example that springs to mind is 'Star Trek', in the original series episode 'City at the Edge of Forever'. (I always thought it sounded like a B7 episode!) In that episode, McCoy, who has (by accident) becomes stoned on a powerful drug, beams down onto a strange planet, and goes back in time thanks to a strange device, changing history, the result being the disappearance of the Enterprise. Kirk, Spock, and the other crew who beamed down after him, have to go back in the same time to change things, and find out the incident that McCoy intervegned in. Yours, Murray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:49:38 PST From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes Message-ID: <19981210114939.4803.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Pat: >Or what if Sulu's coup had succeeded? A worse overlord than Servalan? If Sula had connections with the old High Council, you could say her coup did succeed, eventually. Although Sula herself probably wasn't too concerned with events by the time Servalan was deposed. The power struggle between Servalan, the old president and the High Council is one of the most absorbing threads in B7. It is much bigger, and much more important, than anything Blake and his rabble get up to. Watching the dialogue between Servalan and Joban in Hostage, we get the impression that Blake and the Liberator are pawns in this game. Worried about Servalan's ambition, the president is using Blake as an excuse to reorganise Space Command, and replace the troublesome supreme commander. I wonder what would have happened if an enlightened despot had taken the presidency some time after the Pylene-50 era. From the dialogue in "Orbit", it's clear that Servalan has her sights set on the presidency, but without Space Command behind her she'd have her work cut out the second time around. Perhaps a very different character would have been able to seize the presidency -- some kind of Augustus figure, for example. But then again, maybe that would be a crappy idea. We wouldn't want our crew to be out of a job, would we? By the end of the fourth series, they're almost insignificant anyway. Tarrant remarks, "There's still a price on our heads from the old days," as if the Federation have, by then, got better things to outlaw than small fry like them. After all, it's Blake the troopers are after at the very end: bagging Avon and his crew was like getting a freebie out of a cornflakes packet. -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:06:53 PST From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Times change, people don't Message-ID: <19981210120653.10697.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Una: >I think it's (probably) meaningless to talk about vegetarianism in a >12th century context (but I haven't carried out a social history and >I don't know of one). Vegetarianism is a moral stance taken these >days in a situation of relative wealth which enables people to make >more specific choices about how they lead their lives. I don't know >if what we would describe these days as vegetarianism (i.e., as you >put it, moral reasons surrounding cruelty to animals) would >necessarily be meaningful. I'm sure All of which forms a powerful argument for saying that an individual's morality should be judged according to his circumstances, his opporunities and his level of education. Not the same thing, however, as judging him in the context of his birth date. Also, societies can and should be judged against other societies -- not necessarily contemporaneous ones, either. If one society offers women and men equal rights and responsibilities, it is, in that respect, morally superior to a society that offers its women, and, by extension, its men, little or no choice in deciding their own destiny. There may, of course, be mitigating circumstances, but "They're all dead now" doesn't really cut the cake. Time to move to the spin list? -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:05:55 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Good - Bad - I'm the one with the DSV. Message-ID: <5dc8d42a.366fb923@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-08 22:12:02 EST, you write: << >another example might be, on >account of their devotion to the "Rule of Life", the clonemasters. But they were working for the Evil Federation! And their response to Travis' totally pointless murder or poor red-shirted Blake Clone 1 was pretty cavalier. >> On the other hand, there is a tension between the Clone Masters and Servalan that indicate a power struggle. I get the impression that the making of the Blake clones was not a completely voluntary action on their part; Servalan somehow threatened them. They are powerful, yes, but their power is not a military one. And military power tends to win arguemnets VERY quickly against an opponant who can not meet it on their own terms. I personally think that the Clonemasters made the two Blake clones in order to buy time, and making the best of a bad situation. I also think that their "Rule of Life" imprinting on Blake was a subtle attempt to score back against the Federation. Neither of the two Blake clones act anything like the original Blake. There is no way the Blake clones could closely resemble the original in personality, of course, but surely they could have had them mimic the original a bit better than we see. D. ROse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:14:53 EST From: Achtung74@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's Legend Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit forgive me if this is a stupid question or is common knowledge but I have been away for some time and the last time I was on this group there was talk of a fan video called Blake's Legend which might even feature a cameo from an old cast member..could someone fill me in on any new news regarding this? m ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:19:55 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan and Avon Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-09 13:57:51 EST, you write: << And even in his field he wasn't the best. In SPACEFALL they mention the person who caught him. And both Ensor and Muller appeared to have an innovative genius with computers that Avon lacked. >> But we find out later that his real downfall was actually that he was being monitered by the Federation security, so it is the Federation's Gestapo-like branch, and not another computer genius that actually gets the credit. Avon doesn't show the innovative genius that Ensor and Muller do because he hasn't the time to sit down and develop it. He manages to come up with an anti-detection screen, is constantly puttering around and modifying Liberator, and adapts the technologies like the stardrive to use. I think he more than earns the title genius, even if we don't see some "masterwork" of his. Which isn't to say he can't foul things up royally. He is human, after all, and part of the fun of his character is how agravatingly human his flaws are. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:14:10 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Kathryn and Una > > >Why not? They happen to be the only standards you have, the ones you > >have now. It makes just as much sense to say that what is wrong in > >one age is right in another as to say that what is wrong on a Tuesday > >is right on a Monday. > > Sorry, can't agree with that one. Times change, mores change (or, at > least, *acceptability* changes). And what one person says is right on a > Monday, *another* person will say is wrong on the same Monday. It seems to me that the issue around moral relativism isn't whether we can judge what people did in the Middle Ages - which could never be more than a parlour game anyway - it's whether we can judge what people do now. If you take the 'relativist' position, that good and bad are relative to a society's mores, then you have nowhere to stand 'outside' your own society to criticise it. For example - why did the witch burning stop? because something in the people of those ages revolted against it. They changed the mores, by reference to something (such as reason and compassion) which was outside of conventional morality. In other words absolute rather than relative. If you take a relativist position then the people in charge always win, because they have the power to dictate conventional morality. Someone has to step outside, like Blake, and say - this isn't good enough and it has to change. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:01:59 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] "Good and evil Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Dear Pat P, > > You gave examples from 'Xena: Warrior Princess' and 'Buffy the > Vampire Slayer' about a "what if" theme, and wondered if there were any > other series who deal with this. > > Murray 'Its a Wonderful Life' - well I know it isn't a series, but I bet it was the main influence on all the examples mentioned. The Rugrats did one too. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:57:21 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Space City Subject: [B7L] The Price of Justice Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Finally back from the printers, hopefully in time for Xmas, is 'The Price of Justice' by Ermentrude Postlethwaite Smythe (aka Lillian Sheperd) Thi zine also includes the short story 'Helltide' by the same writer. Both these stories were originally printed long, long ago in 'Liberator'. This is a new edition. The text has been checked by the author and there is new art by Mary O'Conner and Jean Sheward. The original cover art by Casey has been retained, but now appears on cloud, blue cardstock. Like most of this writer's work, the story features a well thought out plot, an original alien race (beautifully drawn on the zine cover), and an intelligent look at the relationship between Blake and Avon. Cally (as is typical for this writer) is a very positive character. This is a genzine. There is no sex. None the less, this is a zine that will probably appeal to slash fans simply because it deals with an intense relationship. There's lots of angst - the story is set in the second season and Avon is on trial for Blake's murder... Word count 33,700 words. Price 5 pounds UK, 5.70 pounds Europe, 6.50 pounds or $11 cash USA, 6.80 pounds Australia (or ask Pat Fenech for a price in ASU$) Judith PS. This is *not* the story that I wrote for Gambit. It has the same name, so don't get confused. PPS. Morgan has proved to be far more popular than I ever anticipated. I've passed my original print estimate, so I've covered all the overheads and can reduce the price by 50p or US$1. That makes the UK price £4.50. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:32:59 PST From: "Penny Dreadful" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] In laws and out laws... Message-ID: <19981210183300.12519.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Penny K. said: >Missy was practicing getting up with her >hands joined behind her back (hence the following conversation,) and of >course Travis entered her mind. How exactly did Blake fasten Travis' hands together? It always looked to me like he was just holding onto one hand with the other while trying to get up. Was I just supposed to suspend belief and pretend there was a rope, or am I missing something? >Missy: And what was she...an INLAW? The golden opportunity for 101 mother-in-law jokes, eschewed by all. Tsk tsk. Or bravo. - Penny "Cheap Shot" Dreadful ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:50:55 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] oak leaves multiply Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Pat Fenech is added to the honoured ranks of those allowed to wear the oak leaf of the true Gan defender. I think the things I like about the Gan include the fact that he never shouted his virtues out to the world. Several of the others left you in no doubt that they were among the very best as computer expert, thief, pilot, gunslinger or whatever. Gan (except when he was enjoying a fight) never made an issue of his strength. You also had that instinctive feeling that if you'd been there, he would have used his strength to defend you. I fantasise happily about the others being wonderfully nice to me. Most of us would be delighted if Avon, Vila or Blake fell in love with us. Gan however, would be nice to me even if I wasn't the object of his dreams, wheras Avon would probably be horribly sarcastic. Gan had patience, and that wasn't a common quality on board Liberator. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:58:43 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally's telepathic powers Message-ID: <19981210195843.11586@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 12:00:52AM -0500, VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote: > Sorry I am so late responding to this. Is Cally telepathic? It always seemed > obvious to me. Shadow is an excellent example of this. For instance, when > Blake is being cross-examined by the Terra Nostra boss, Blake bluffs and tells > him the Liberator has 4 shuttles. Cally, who is still on the ship while Blake > and others are on the planet, must read his mind and repeat this answer to the > boss. Alas, I must correct this mis-remembering. She didn't read Blake's mind at all. She did something more interesting: she thought on her feet. What actually happened was, that when the communication occurred where Cally was asked by the Terra Nostra boss how many shuttles the Liberator has, she sends telepathically *to* Blake, saying that she is going to count, (sending to him) and when she reaches the right number, he is to call her name. And she starts counting, and when she gets to "four" (I think that was the number), Blake calls out (through the communicator) "Cally, are you all right?", and so of course she knows that four is the right number. I thought that was pretty clever. > One of the really interesting points of this episode is that telepathy is not > without its drawbacks. This is why she is in such danger from the alien that > is using Orac's carrier waves to try and enter their dimension. Indeed, the > alien succeeds in imprisoning Cally, perhaps within her own thoughts. > However, her telepathy saves her in the end as the moondisks bring her out of > this after she is teleported to the planet where they are grown. The > moondisks are also telepathic and give her a feeling of belonging, of not > being alone, which she has missed since leaving Auron. Now *this* example is actually more fitting. She communes with the moondisks... maybe this is an example of telempathy rather than telepathy, though. There have been other occasions when she's gotten a *feeling* from something -- not as precise as thought, but sensed as emotion. One classic example is in Killer, when she senses the alien malevolance on the ancient ship, before anyone actually gets on board it. The moondisks, however, are fascinating for another reason: it is with their help that Cally manifests an ability which she had never used before or since: remote teleportation of objects. If you recall, she removed Orac's key *and had it in her hand* down on the planet after it was removed. If it had just been telekinesis, then the key would have remained on the ship. Kathryn A. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:50:20 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] "Good and evil Message-Id: <199812110047.SAA19776@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pat Patera wrote: >Or what if Sulu's coup had succeeded? A worse overlord than Servalan? Goodness, I had no idea he was out to take over the Federation. He always seemed like such a nice chap. >Have other series done this "what if" theme? Far, far too many of them -- bad rip-offs of "It's a Wonderful Life" are a dime a dozen. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 98 02:20:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.com To: space-city%world.std.com%inet00#@genie.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] SC: The Price of Justice Message-Id: <199812110241.CAA09961@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh goody! Judith, I'm delighted to hear that you are reprinting these classics. It took me a long time to chase down the originals. To anyone who hasn't read these stories, they are very highly recommended, as is anything by the author. Re: more new zines for '98, I see from the latest Avon Club newsletter that they are now offering the following: AVON #15: A Breath of Earth and Destiny (novella by Patricia Vernon; UK, 1998) AVON #16: Game Plan (story by Gillian Puddle; UK, 1998) So, here's the total lineup for '98, unless something else squeaks in by the end of the year (and in fact, Vol. 2 of the =Guide to B7 Erotica= is dated December '98, although I can't guarantee distribution until January): All-B7 zines, gen: Anthologies: AVON SPECIAL (UK, 1998) DELIVERANCE 98: THE FICTION (UK, 1998.3) D.S.V. #3 (US, 1998) HORIZON #21 (UK, 1998.3) POWER (UK, 1998.3) THE SEVEN LIVE ON #11 (US, 1998.5) SOUTHERN SEVEN #11 (US, 1998.5) SOUTHERN SEVEN #12 (US, 1998.5) STADLER LINK (UK, 1998) Standalones: AVON #14: Never Glad Confident Morning (novella by Judith Seaman; UK, 1998) AVON #15: A Breath of Earth and Destiny (novella by Patricia Vernon; UK, 1998) AVON #16: Game Plan (story by Gillian Puddle; UK, 1998) DOWN AND OUT (novel by Leah Rosenthal and Ann Wortham; revised reprint of stories from B7 COMPLEX; US, 1998) MORGAN (novella by Judith Proctor; UK, 1998.3) THE PRICE OF JUSTICE (two stories by Ermentrude Postlethwaite- Smythe; reprinted from LIBERATOR; UK, 1998) All-B7 zines, slash, adult, or mixed: Anthologies: FIRE AND ICE #4 (slash; US, 1998.5) LIBERATOR FANTASIES (slash, and one gen story; US, 1998) TALES FROM SPACE CITY (mixed gen, adult, and slash; UK, 1998.10) ULTRA #1 (adult; UK, 1998.3) Standalones: COMA AVON NIGHTS or Kiss of the Avon Lady (novella by Willa Shakespeare; slash and adult; humor; US, 1998) MAY KING (novel by Susan Cutter; adult and slash; US, 1998.11) MINDFIRE (novel by Ermentrude Postlethwaite-Smythe; adult and implied slash; first authorized edition, revised from 1979 circuit story, UK, 1998.3) Multimedia zines with B7 stories, gen: ENARRARE #9 (mm gen; AU, 1998) REFRACTIONS #5 (mm gen; AU, 1998) REMOTE CONTROL #10 (mm gen; US, 1998) Multimedia zines with B7 stories, slash or adult: AWAKENINGS #5 (mm slash; US, 1998) DIVERSE DOINGS #2 (mm slash; US, 1998.5) DIVERSE DOINGS #3 (mm slash; US, 1998.11) GOING ALL THE WAY #1 (mm adult; US, 1998.11) REVELATIONS #1 (Highlander zine with a B7 crossover story; slash; US, 1998.4) Nonfiction, gen: Avon club calendar, 1998 DELIVERANCE 98 EXHIBITION CATALOGUE (UK, 1998.3) DELIVERANCE 98 PROGRAMME GUIDE (UK, 1998.3) DELIVERANCE 98 SOUVENIR BROCHURE (UK, 1998.3) SOME DREAMS ARE WORTH HAVING (filks by Judith Proctor; lyrics to filk tape of same name; UK, 1998.3) I count 22 all-B7 fiction zines (only three of which are reprints) and 8 multimedia fiction zines with B7 stories this year. Pretty good, I'd say! Lots of good stuff here to nominate for awards. Sarah T. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #305 **************************************