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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 98 : Issue 253

Today's Topics:
	 Re: [B7L] Avon and gun
	 [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
	 [B7L] Vere Lorrimer Pictures
	 Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
	 [B7L] It's the silly season again!
	 [B7L] B7 sketch
	 [B7L] Re: Lots of stuff from Rob
	 [B7L] Merlin
	 RE: [B7L] Lots of stuff from Rob
	 Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
	 [B7L] Who is Soolin?
	 [B7L] Zeeona
	 [B7L] {B7L] re Doulble Standards
	 [B7L] re: Project Avalon
	 Re: [B7L] Zeeona
	 [B7L] OT: something you can do to help fight AIDS
	 Re: [B7L] Who is Soolin?
	 [B7L] VD, STDs, etc.
	 [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
	 [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
	 [B7L] Blake, poor baby
	 [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
	 Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
	 [B7L] Blake, poor baby - an apology
	 [B7L] costume sale

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:14:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon and gun
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1004201439-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Sun 04 Oct, Jennifer Beavan wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Avon is seriously wound up by the need to rescue Blake if he's really
> > there, and the need to consider what will happen if it is, as he
> > suspects, a trap. He is, in a back-handed way, trying to protect his
> > crew. I think he needs his luscious little backside kicked for the way
> > he goes about it, but the situation is rather different to Tarrant's.
> > That makes a difference in how one views the use of a gun to threaten
> > people.
> 
> But he wasn't just threatening - he was prepared to kill Tarrant -
> confirmed by both Tarrant and Cally. Tarrant was never going to shoot Vila
> and everybody knew it.

And there you have the true test of the hard-core Avon fan <grin>.   That's one
of my all time favourie Avon moments; I absolutely love it.

He's so totally focused on finding Blake that nothing and no-one is going to
stop him.  At the same time he's so terrified of them finding out what he's
looking for and stopping him that he's totally ruthless.

That's what makes Avon so attractive to me.  When he loves - be it Anna or Blake
- he loves totally.  He hates to give committment, he plays the cynic for all he
can so that no one will ever suspect him capable of that committment, but in the
end, he's an all or nothing person.

And because he's so total about it, he can't take betrayal of that committment. 
He killed Anna and Blake for exactly the same reason (even if he was mistaken
about Blake).

That's why I can forgive him for killing Blake.  If he hadn't loved Blake
totally (read that as platonic or sexual - the argument is exactly the same in
either case) then he wouldn't have had that killing reaction.

Betrayal from people he didn't love didn't have the same impact.  In 'Gold' for
example, he is amused rather than angry that Servalan tried to set him up.  The
only time he reacts with passinate anger towards Servalan is in 'Terminal' when
she tells him that Blake is dead.


Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:09:31 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Message-ID: <a268fdab.361870ab@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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<<Tigerm writes:
<<like leaving the Liberator completely unattended in "Gambit" (if Blake 
<<and the others had needed emergency teleport they'd have been in deep 
<<trouble).  At  some points, they actively endanger their shipmates, either 
>>through intent or negligence.   >>

When were Blake and party in danger thru negligence?  ORAC was ready to
teleport them at a moments notice if they called for transport.  There was
NEVER a time they would have been stranded.

I found the end of this episode rediculous.  I can't imagine Avon feeling
compelled to hide his actions from Blake.  

<<Judith writes:
<<There's something dangerously seductive about Avon's demeanour 
<<that invites us to ignore his faults 

Definitely!  But I think rather than ignore them, we adore him in spite of
them.  I can forgive Avon his bad faults because I accept him as he is, as a
product of the B7 universe.  And it's the climate of the B7 universe that
attracts me to the show in the first place.  While I don't see Avon with a
hidden heart of gold, I do acknowledge his loyalty to his crew (both of them)
and his good points (which I will list if necessary).  

>>while crucifying others for the same failings. 

I haven't noticed this.  I've only been on the list for about six weeks so I
guess I just haven't seen these postings.  I didn't realize the others were
being so crucified.  So far, all I've seen is a lot of Avon bashing.

Because *I* find Avon so particularly attractive and appealing I find it easy
to forgive him almost anything.  However, I forgive the others their failings
as well.  

Well, most of them anyway.  I'll never forgive Vila from dropping the gun in
"Spacefall"

Suzanne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:47:51 -0700
From: "Jim Bartlett" <jimbart@my-dejanews.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Vere Lorrimer Pictures
Message-ID: <MIBNKJHCJFAEFAAA@my-dejanews.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I am sure many of you, like me, would like to know what the late Vere Lorrimer looked like. There are a couple of pictures in the Inside Story, but they are rather small. I've found some nice pictures in the Birmingham School of Speech and Drama site, where he obviously used to lecture, which give a better idea of the man. Go to http://www.bssd.ac.uk/bssd/verepg.htm and http://www.bssd.ac.uk/bssd/vere2.htm

Considering the stories about him, he looks remarkably sensible!

Cheers,  Jim Bartlett


-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/  Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:28:07 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Double standards (was Stuff from Rob)
Message-ID: <82974cde.3618bb57@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-10-05 03:12:21 EDT, you write:

<<  I'll never forgive Vila from dropping the gun in
 "Spacefall" >>


but if he hadn't dropped the gun, they never would have gotten on the
Liberator:) It took me quite awhile to realize how much I liked Vila; my first
clue was the fact that I used him  as the central character in a short story
in last year's Labor Day Party. So give the guy a break, please?   D. Rose

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 05:48:32 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] It's the silly season again!
Message-ID: <19981005124833.21410.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

>>I certainly don't like him [Galahad]!
>
>You're just jealous 'cause he got to visit the Castle Anthrax.

Wouldn't you be?  I mean, come on -- I wouldn't have minded if he'd 
actually stayed there...

-- Rob

PS  If you read the Holy Grail part of Le Morte Darthur, there are about 
six or seven different versions of the Castle Anthrax, and they're all 
completely bizarre and twisted.  It's great!


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:38:11 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] B7 sketch
Message-Id: <E0zQAry-00011y-00@post.mail.demon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was reading the radio review in the Observer yesterday. The woman was
reviewing a comedy program (*) which was supposed to be 'contemporary'.
Anyway she mentioned in passing that it included a sketch called 'Bloke's
7' The reviewer didn't seem to think this was too obscure - and presumably
neither did the scriptwriters.

I find this obscurely comforting.

Alison


(*) It was Punt and Dennis, who used to be in the 'Mary Whitehouse
experience' on TV with Newman and Baddiel if that means anything to anyone.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:52:25 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Lots of stuff from Rob
Message-ID: <199810051052_MC2-5BA1-6F09@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Carol wrote:
>So while RUMOURS might have been selfishly conceived 
>by Avon and stupidly allowed to play out by the support 
>of his crew, it benefited them in the long run.

But it didn't benefit the citizens of the Federation (though I concede that
Anna's chances of pulling off the coup weren't all that good - it depended
largely on whoever was commanding the relief forces being sufficiently
devoted to Servalan to put saving her life above crushing the rebels).  And
killing/overthrowing Servalan had to be beneficial in anyone's books. 
Apart from her not being around to persecute the masses in person, she's a
constant threat to the crew.  Even though she has been overthrown in fourth
season, and even though their  importance decreases without the Liberator,
she spends an awful lot of time following them round the galaxy.  No doubt
the new Federation President would be pleased if his/her forces destroyed
them (as they eventually did), but there is no sign of him/her devoting
such personal attention to it.

Harriet

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:17:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Merlin
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1005081702-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

The following is courtesty  of the sci fi channel website:  (and gives slightly
different dates from those previously mentioned)

The Kaleidoscope Media Group announced
                   that its two-hour TV pilot Merlin: The Magic
                   Begins will air in syndication between Oct. 19
                   and Nov. 15. The show has so far been
                   cleared in 59 markets, which represent
                   approximately 62 percent of U.S. TV
                   households, including both CBS and NBC
                   owned-and-operated stations. 

                   Merlin stars Jason Connery, the son of Sean
                   Connery, and Deborah Moore, the daughter
                   of Roger Moore, in a story based on the King
                   Arthur legend. In this version of the Arthur
                   tale, Merlin is a young man who must learn to
                   control his blossoming magical powers while
                   fighting to protect the benevolent forest
                   people against the black magic of the evil
                   Rengal. 

                   Kaleidoscope plans to follow the Merlin movie
                   with a syndicated one-hour TV series that is
                   expected to premiere in the fall 1999. 
                   
                   
                   
                   Footnote from Judith - Kaleidoscope have promised things
about a series before and they didn't come to pass, so I'd take this
announcement with a large pinch of salt.  There's also no guarantee at all that
Gareth will retain his part if the series does come to pass.  Last time I spoke
to Gareth, he'd had no news regarding 'Merlin' for a long time and had pretty
well writen it off.  Shame, he looks lovely in the stills I've seen.
-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:33:34 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Lots of stuff from Rob
Message-ID: <01BDF08E.D6729E20@host5-171-249-185.btinternet.com>

Carol wrote lots of stuff that I agree with, then added:

>Tell me more, because I really have a hard time understanding Soolin's
>motivations in WARLORD.  Why do you see it as Soolin's fight against
>injustice?  There didn't seem to be any empathy between her and Zeeona. 
 Why
>would she take up Zeeona's cause and hate Zukan's dominance of Zeeona so
>vehemently that she'd risk the Alliance (that would have benefited her
>personally)?  It's as if there is a piece of the puzzle that we're not
>getting.

The only way I can interpret her motivations is to see it as an impulse - 
by this time Avon's behaviour is becoming seriously dodgy, the whole crew 
are becoming more disillusioned, more stressed and more miserable. In the 
midst of all this, she sees Tarrant and Zeeona happy. Soolin, of course, 
has never been happy since she was 8 years old, and she wouldn't have 
appreciated what she had of family life til she lost it. Soolin, like Avon, 
is a good deal softer on the inside than she would like the world to think 
and is capable of compassion even to strangers (see Neebrox). I think she 
got it into her head that Tarrant and Zeeona should have their chance to be 
happy - that conversation with Zeeona set her reminiscing about just how 
lousy her own life has been. Though I'm sure plenty of people will disagree 
with my interpretation of a Soolin with romantic impulses!

Louise

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:58:28 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-ID: <BAN3YAAU4GG2Ewwa@jajones.demon.co.uk>

In message <3614FEB8.24E7@geocities.com>, Pat Patera
<pussnboots@geocities.com> writes
>ok, who wants to write it? Post it to the list, please, when you do! :D

It's been written - I can remember reading a story along those lines
recently, although I can't remember name or title at the moment.
-- 
Julia Jones

"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
        The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:59:05 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Who is Soolin?
Message-ID: <19981005185906.29927.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

>Tell me more, because I really have a hard time understanding 
>Soolin's motivations in WARLORD.  Why do you see it as Soolin's 
>fight against injustice?  There didn't seem to be any empathy 
>between her and Zeeona.  Why would she take up Zeeona's cause and 
>hate Zukan's dominance of Zeeona so vehemently that she'd risk the 
>Alliance (that would have benefited her personally)?  It's as if 
>there is a piece of the puzzle that we're not getting. 


Perhaps she thought that a man who would enslave his daughter couldn't 
be trusted as the figurehead of a rebel alliance.  And yet, when she 
airs her opinion on Zukan in the next episode, she claims that the 
alliance wasn't worth spit without him.  As Zukan betrayed the alliance 
anyway, this may have been a backhanded way of telling Avon he'd been on 
to a loser from the start.


>Hm, I've never seen her as a crusader.  Must think on that...  


There are ways you can interpret her actions as those of a crusader, as 
I will try to expound in the context of Avon/Dorian.


>>(1) She would have waited until she had enough power and 
>>influence within the crew, and wrested the leadership from Avon.  
>>Avon may or may not have conceded it willingly -- but he would have 
>>been placed in a position where he had no choice.
>
>But that doesn't fit (to me) with a woman who took a position as 
>Dorian's companion and bodyguard...  
>
>>(3) Under no circumstances whatsoever would she have looked upon 
>>Avon as anything other than a petulant member of her crew.  If she 
>>had taken a lover, it would have been someone made out of quite 
>>different material to Avon.
>
>What type of lover do you think she would have taken? The only canon 
>we have is Dorian, kind of a scumbag.  I see Soolin as taking him 
>because he was (a)physically attractive to her and (b) not at all 
>emotionally attractive to her.  She could enjoy sex with him without 
>fear of emotional entrapment.  


Dorian had two things Soolin wanted: Scorpio and the Xenon Base.  Again, 
according to the model I have of her, she would have picked her moment 
very, very carefully before killing Dorian and taking over the base.  
She probably would have known he was planning to hijack the Liberator: 
maybe that would have been the moment.

It's difficult to think of Soolin stopping when she's dealt only with 
the people who killed her family -- she would have harboured a lot of 
anger and resentment towards the system that junked the law and 
sanctioned the plundering.  So, while Soolin wouldn't have been fighting 
for the greater good in the same way that Blake was, her quarrel with 
the Federation would have been similar.


>So to my way of thinking, she could have used Avon (in fourth 
>season) the same way, as long as she didn't much like him.


Although she didn't like Avon much (which, in Soolin's mind, is a 
perfectly good reason to start bonking someone), she would have 
recognised his value as a member of the crew.  She wouldn't have started 
an affair with someone whom she needed for other reasons.  (Remember, in 
my version of events, she needed Scorio and Xenon, but not Dorian.)  In 
other words, she wouldn't have used Avon sexually for the same reasons 
that she wouldn't have shot him and chucked him out of the airlock.

As for what kind of lover she would have taken, it really is difficult 
to imagine her loving anyone in a profound sense -- it's much easier to 
think of her using someone convenient and unobtrusive.  Then again, I 
don't think anyone is immune to love.  It would be interesting to 
speculate on the sort of person it would take to inspire Soolin's 
devotion -- no one from B7 springs to mind immediately.  

Cheers,
-- Rob


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:24:58 PDT
From: "Rob Clother" <whitehorse_dream@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-ID: <19981005192459.15346.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

>I think she got it into her head that Tarrant and Zeeona should have 
>their chance to be happy - that conversation with Zeeona set her 
>reminiscing about just how lousy her own life has been. 


I think I'll have to accept this -- there aren't many other ways you can 
interpret that scene.  So yes, Soolin probably was acting on her 
impulses at the time.  The confusing part is that she did so with such 
conviction.  She was acting like someone who knew they were doing the 
right thing.

It just about adds up if you accept that she had little or no confidence 
in Zukan, and by extension, Avon's alliance.  I notice she referred to 
it as "your [Avon's] rebel alliance" later on -- deliberately 
dissociating herself from any part in it.  That isn't a very attractive 
trait -- just waiting in the background and criticising without actively 
involving herself in the crew's plans -- but then she was a calculating 
soul...


>Though I'm sure plenty of people will disagree 
>with my interpretation of a Soolin with romantic impulses!


OK, I admit -- with the odd romantic impulse.

Cheers,
-- Rob




>
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:00:39 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] {B7L] re Doulble Standards
Message-ID: <36192567.2611@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote:

(snip)

> Regarding the charges of bullying against Tarrant, the man was a
> military officer.  That means several things.  First, he is used to
> being in charge. Second, when someone is an officer, their focus is on
> accomplishing the mission, and they do whatever is necessary to do so. 

Perhaps Tarrant never finished his course.  Then again, he WAS
Federation trained.  Perhaps it was taught that it was accptable to lead
by intimidation - look at how all Federation soldiers behave. This
*intimidation* was what Blake was fighting against, surely?

> They don't let personal feelings get in the way of that.  Also, the > focus is on the welfare of the group as a group.  In the early part of the third season, Tarrant had
> to adjust to working with civilians, and the rest of the crew had to adjust to
> having a military person on board. 

Let us not forget also, that Tarrant deserted the Federation, and became
a mercenary, he would have had to deal with civilians then. What we saw
was not a *Military Man* adjusting to civilians, but a mercenary failing
in becoming top dog (dominant male?? :-)).  We saw that Bayban (a
mercenary/pirate) also led by bullying his crew. Tarrant obviously
assumed that because the Liberator crew were high priced outlaws, he
could bully his way into leading the group.  Wrong!  

> Vila's unreliable behavior endangered
> everyone, and I think Tarrant believed he had to do something about it for all
> their sakes.  I do know this, if a crewman on a submarine got drunk and slept
> on duty all the time, he would not have been on sub duty very long, 

Not only that, he would have been courtmartialled, served time in RNDQs,
and discharged the Navy SNLR.  

BUT, even submariners get to go ashore, or have a crew change while the
boat goes to sea.  The crew of the Liberator did not have that luxury,
they lived on board permenantly. They needed a break every now and
again.

Bue for now
Jackie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:00:46 +0100
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] re: Project Avalon
Message-ID: <3619256E.52E6@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Judith Proctor wrote:
> 
> On Fri 02 Oct, Jane MacDonald wrote:
> > I have just been watching Project Avalon and something is puzzling me.
> > If the virus has a life of only 28 seconds, how was it supposed to spread
> > throughout the liberator in that time.
> > Surely Travis wasn't relying on the whole crew to be in the vicinity of the
> > virus when it was dropped?
> > What do people think?
> 
> I think it's a darn good question!
> 
> Without rewatching the episode, here's my of the cuff guess.
> 
> I think there's two things - how fast the virus acted and how it was neutralised
> afterwards.  Wasn't there something on the screen that said 'neutralising'?
> 
> This suggests that there was a counter-agent that neutralised the virus.
> Presumably this was introduced into the chamber after the man was dead.
> 
> If this was the case, then the neutralising agent could have been released on
> Liberator once the crew were dead.


I`ve always believed that the virus needed `something` to work on.  In
the experiment, the victim was in a confined space.  Once the virus had
*eaten* the victim, it died a natural death.  On the expanse of the
Liberator, it would have continued to live till it had exhausted it`s
food supply (for want of a better expression).  This tied in with the
fact that no federation ships went after it immediately (remember
Servalan`s surprise when the Liberator re-enterd Orbit - she would not
have been so surprised if the ship had been followed.)  This led me to
believe that Servalan knew she had a fews days before the ship would
have been viable for take-over.

I`m sure my theory is full of errors, but that is how I`ve always
*accepted* that plot-line.

> 
> The question that always bugs me in this epside is why the android didn't
> release the virus the instant it came on board Liberator.

Or how the Android lost her coverall in the first place?, and why did
nobody discover the glass bauble when they removed the garment?. Why was
the prison coverall kept in the first place and not disposed of - were
the crew planning to give it back to Avalon as a momento of her stay?

Answers - anyone?

Jackie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:58:25 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zeeona
Message-Id: <199810052059.PAA07182@pemberton.magnolia.net>

Rob said:

>It just about adds up if you accept that she had little or no confidence
>in Zukan, and by extension, Avon's alliance.  I notice she referred to
>it as "your [Avon's] rebel alliance" later on -- deliberately
>dissociating herself from any part in it.  That isn't a very attractive
>trait -- just waiting in the background and criticising without actively
>involving herself in the crew's plans -- but then she was a calculating
>soul...

That last sentence is an apt description of another regular character in the
show.  Any guesses on who it could be? <eg>

Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn?  You're the best mom ever!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:33:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Kim F. Holec" <deidre@america.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] OT: something you can do to help fight AIDS
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.981005182533.17740C-100000@atl1>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Dear List-Members,

As I work for an ISP, I do not condone spam in any way. However, this is
not spam, but for a good cause!
Today, October the 5th only, Levi's/Dockers will contribute $5 (american)
to the San Franciso Aids Foundation for every person who goes to 
http://www.sfaf.org and fills out a very brief survey. Click on Link@Life,
and that is where you will find the survey. 
Please give a few minutes of your time to this most worthy cause.

Back on topic: so is there any VD in the Federation, or does Servalen and
co. have a wonder drug for that, too?

Thanks in advance,
Kim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:37:04 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Who is Soolin?
Message-ID: <e422f9af.36194a10@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-10-05 15:02:07 EDT, you write:

<< (Remember, in 
 my version of events, she needed Scorio and Xenon, but not Dorian.)  >>


   I can't buy into this Soolin. This is a Soolin who would never have let
Dorian leave Xenon base; it left her stranded if anything would happen to him.
She isn't aware that he needs to rejuvinate by coming back at fairly frequent
intervals, so she's risking a lot by allowing him away. That, and his caution
about locking up Scorpio. There's no reason to believe that she has acess to
Scorpio's controls even if she had the ship. So the picture of a mercianary
Soolin, merely trying to survive, and enjoying some quiet, pleasant
surroundings makes more sense than a conspiritorial Soolin callously planning
to 'off' Dorian and take over his things. There would also be the matter of
ownership; I can see Avon and Orac hacking into records and making it look as
if they owned Scorpio, but Soolin never shows any skills in this area.
Admittedly, this wouldn't be a major problem after the war, but as the
Federation begins re-establishing its control, she would have found herself in
a difficult position...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:43:42 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] VD, STDs, etc.
Message-ID: <e422f9b1.36194b9e@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-10-05 18:36:17 EDT, you write:

<< Back on topic: so is there any VD in the Federation, or does Servalen and
 co. have a wonder drug for that, too? >>


   I doubt if the Federation has managed to free itself from such things; the
nasty little buggers are good at adapting to anything we throw at them:) In
addition, given that mankind's spread out over what appears to be hundreds of
worlds( though the relatively low populations on these worlds would slow down
any spread), you'd get some interesting mutations on old favorites.
   As for Servalan, no doubt she had access to the best in  medical
prevention, or at worst, treatment. Another advantage of her position; she
could order a prospective toy to be given a physical to ensure that she
wouldn't have to worry about such things:)    D. Rose

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:51:26 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Boucher on Boucher
Message-ID: <3618F90D.3BA33C4@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The current issue of SFX in the UK (No 44 Novemver) has a review of the
Fabulous Films video release containing Shadow and Weapon. Nothing
surprising there apart from the fact that both those episodes were
written by Chris Boucher and the reviewer is.. er, Chris Boucher.

He likes the way Shadow turned out but not Weapon and was obviously not
keen on director George Spenton Foster. He also said: "Foster hated one
cast member and left him swinging in the wind." Does anyone know any
more about this?

There is a different reviewer for the tape containing Horizon and
Pressure Point and his line is that if you think Avon epitomises
sex-in-leather then you'll like Horizon otherwise you won't.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson

Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

"Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell"
Star Wars

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:36:03 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Other animals to liken people to
Message-ID: <19981005233604.12074.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Seems I'm reluctant to go back into work mode after a long weekend...

Rob said:
>Put another way, this argument could run, "It's OK for Avon to be a 
pig, but not for anyone else."

That would be true for me, Rob, IF I wanted it to be, but I don't. 
Heavens, <smile> there are a number of occasions, especially in the 
later episodes where I'd be quite happy to kick Avon from here to the 
North Pole (and Sydney to the South Pole is a fair distance!). No, where 
Avon's concerned, there are some people who *appear* quite happy to look 
at the stars (Hello Suzanne, but believe me, this is not a criticism), 
but I'm definitely looking at the gutter. Given the new quote at the 
bottom of Julia's posts, I think there are others looking in much the 
same direction <chuckle> but I'm not sure it's the same section of 
guttering.

Regards
Joanne

PS "rosemary-tinted" - I'm not sure what you're referring to, Rob. Could 
you explain?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:53:22 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake, poor baby
Message-ID: <19981005235322.9559.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Judith says:
>Tell me!!! Blake gets exactly the same flack.

How true. How unjust. How unfortunate that Avon is stuck in my 
affections no matter how I try to dislodge him.

>We forgive Avon an enormous amount. He was a bastard,

Tick.

>but a leather-clad, bastard with a seductive, charming smile

Tick and cross. I've never been so sure about that smile. Maybe I'm 
rather too fond of the bit in "Restaurant at the end of the universe" 
where Douglas Adams says people would be far happier to meet the 
Ravenous Bug-Blatter Beast of Traal with its mouth in a thin, straight 
line instead of the usual mass of quivering fangs (or whatever the 
actual quote is, as I'm at work and don't have the book to quote from).

>I drool over Avon, but I don't forget that he's dangerous.

How true. Not that you've forgotten what Cally said, in "Terminal", 
about how useful he is to the others (perish the thought, Judith 
forgetting anything <smile>). Which, come to think of it, is why I'm 
prone to forgiving Avon - I would like, at times, to have my own version 
of his brain. Though I think I'll keep my heart, as I'm not really 
interested in shrivelling people with a look or a word.

Regards 
Joanne

"You gave me your word, you microcephalic apostate!"
The Doctor, Timelash

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:34:55 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be!
Message-ID: <19981006003456.25129.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Carol said:
>Let's put it this way, how comfortable would you be having your life 
>depend on Vila?

<sigh> Not at all. I don't have to be persuaded that Tarrant is far more 
reliable. It's just that Vila is my antidote to Avon, as he is for my 
brother (and I have no idea why my brother likes Avon, as I don't think 
it's the usual female reasons of teeth and/or black leather and/or angst 
potential <smile>). Pat Fenech lent me "A Ledge Between the Streams" by 
Judith Seaman, and (my apologies to those yet to read it) I found it 
impossible for me to like it because an inner voice was screaming, "She 
killed off Vila, you can't do that!!!". Not a rational reason for 
disliking anything, I know, but one Vila would be happy with <smile>

>>But I think I'd put up with both a lot better than Soolin.
>I hope my post didn't suggest I don't like Soolin. I do like her, very 
>much.

No, of course not, Carol. My agreeing with you extends (on occasion 
<grin>) to Tarrant. I should have made it clear that Soolin wasn't part 
of that. <sigh> Especially as I can't find a reason to like her, and you 
so obviously can. A shame for me, in a way, as I'm glad you can 
appreciate all the characters, even when it's obvious who the special 
favourite is!

>Tarrant's loyalty bordered on suicidal.

<splutter> What!?! Oh, sorry, Carol, there must be something 
contaminating the vanilla-tinted glasses <smile>

>>What else can Soolin do except shoot people?
>I would count her survival instincts as a second talent

Talent? Well, I suppose so, but I think there's a very blurred line 
between talent and instinct where Soolin's survival is concerned. It 
seems to me that it's part of what makes her dangerous and, therefore, 
not wholly divorced from that. Am I making sense? What I think I'm 
trying to say is that Soolin is useful for as long as she's able to use 
a gun better than the others and I can't see anything else apart from 
that to extend that usefulness.

>I can only wish you had to go home to vote more often ;-)

<very gusty sigh> Don't, Carol. You'd end up with me being incapable of 
saying anything other than "Down with Little Johnny Howard", which is 
neither useful nor relevant. There's a Leunig cartoon on the subject of 
mandates that I wish the Sydney Morning Herald would reprint, not that I 
think that the Prime Minister would take much notice.

Regards
Joanne

A statesman is a politician who places himself at the service of the 
nation. A politician is a statesman who places the nation at his 
service.
--Georges Pompidou

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:35:37 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re Double Standards
Message-Id: <199810060136.UAA15531@pemberton.magnolia.net>

Jackie said:

>Perhaps Tarrant never finished his course.  Then again, he WAS
>Federation trained.  Perhaps it was taught that it was accptable to lead
>by intimidation - look at how all Federation soldiers behave. This
>*intimidation* was what Blake was fighting against, surely?

Considering Blake wasn't above using the occasional bit of intimidation
himself (see "Bounty"), somehow I don't think that was his goal.

>Let us not forget also, that Tarrant deserted the Federation, and became
>a mercenary, he would have had to deal with civilians then. What we saw
>was not a *Military Man* adjusting to civilians, but a mercenary failing
>in becoming top dog (dominant male?? :-)).  We saw that Bayban (a
>mercenary/pirate) also led by bullying his crew. Tarrant obviously
>assumed that because the Liberator crew were high priced outlaws, he
>could bully his way into leading the group.  Wrong!

As I see it, the main reason Tarrant was challenging Avon for leadership is
because Avon *wasn't leading*!  Frankly, Avon just pissed around for quite a
bit of third series.  Once Avon finally got around to taking control,
Tarrant (mostly) backed down.  I didn't see Tarrant jockeying to be top dog,
so we're obviously watching two different series here.  :-)

>BUT, even submariners get to go ashore, or have a crew change while the
>boat goes to sea.  The crew of the Liberator did not have that luxury,
>they lived on board permenantly. They needed a break every now and
>again.

Which I'm sure would prove marvelously comforting to those crewmembers who
ended up dead or captured because Vila fell asleep or got tanked on the job.
Sorry, but I'm with Tarrant on this one--Vila needed someone to come down on
him now and then.  In fact, it wasn't done nearly often enough.

Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn?  You're the best mom ever!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:12:32 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake, poor baby - an apology
Message-ID: <19981006031233.625.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

Definitely poor Blake. I title a message about him and Avon hijacks it. 
Bad, bad, bad Avon. Sorry about that.

Regards
Joanne

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:31:50 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <Space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] costume sale
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1005213150-354Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Richard's in Australia, so I can't update the web page for a couple of days.

PLease note that the top bid on items in the costume auction is now 300 pounds
for the Dayna outfit and 100 pounds for the Space Princess jacket.

Judith

-- 
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7

Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention  
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #253
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