From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #233 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/233 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 233 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth? Re: [B7L] disability Re: [B7L] RE: Tarrant Nostra baiting [B7L] Rebellion Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours. [B7L] crucible Re: [B7L] disability Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs RE: [B7L] disability Re: [B7L] Swearing by (or, rather, at) Avon's teeth (was Tarrant Nostra baiting) Re: [B7L] raining cats & dogs Re: [B7L] Food for Thought RE: [B7l] disability Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth? [B7L] Space and Power RE: [B7L] Food for Thought ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:41:18 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth? Message-ID: <19980909064120.15677.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >>Actually, I think you're beginning to be greedy, Nicola. I'm prepared >>to stand well back - as might be safer when the more fanatical >>Avonites work out what you might have in mind (several kilometres >>back!) >[leisurely, feline stretch] >Oh, I'm finished with him now. Open slather, folks ;) Finished with him? Sharing him around? Now I am surprised. Not normal behaviour, Nicola, or at least not my impression of normal where a certain character is concerned. Shouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail to keep everyone else back, or should I assume an unusual degree of generosity on your part? Regards Joanne Aromatherapy: throw some stinkweed into a hot bath. This will force you to leave the house and think of something useful to do. --Kaz Cooke, The Little Book of Stress ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:58:40 PDT From: "Todd Girdler" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] disability Message-ID: <19980909065841.4040.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >Judith Proctor writes: > >> With very rare exceptions (eg. the elephant man) ugly/disfigured >> people are bad guys. > >Vincent in "Beauty and the Beast" (TV series, not Disney movie) would >be another exception, I guess. Not so. I watched Biker Mice from Mars and the X Men this morning. All disfigured, and all heroes. I also wouldn't call Earthworm Jim a bad guy. I know. I'm a sad lonely person, with no life. > >> The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really >> shown in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard >> in Wiseguy. (both legs amputated) > >There is/was a series about a mute and/or deaf female lawyer. I >happened to catch it a few times on Swedish TV but can't remember what >it was called. >-- > Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | What about the dancing bandit on "Pickett Fences". She got a permanant role. Admittedly, this is the minority. Todd Girdler "If the sum of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square of the other two sides, why is a mouse when it spins?" Tom Baker, Doctor Who ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:04:35 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Tarrant Nostra baiting Message-ID: <199809091004.GAA11176@yfn.ysu.edu> Katrina wrote: >> fifitrix said: >> >Watch it you lot! - We have attack bases in Europe as well as the >US >> you know!! >> >> Are you sure there isn't one in Sydney? Wouldn't have to go looking for >> rebel hideaways in that case! >> >Of course there is - I'm in Sydney! [If they will have me after all. :P] Consider yourself had. :) Fifi can fill you in on strike capability, doomsday defenses, and the particulars of Tarrant's body parts. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:41:41 +1000 From: "Afenech" To: Cc: Subject: [B7L] Rebellion Message-Id: <10453281246259@domain4.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lots of thanks to everyone for the information -smile- Your collective wisdom is prodigious. Pat F . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 04:33:36 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, kharkess@mail.usyd.edu.au Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant in Rumours. Message-ID: <19980909113336.18372.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >Have a look at it all - it's obvious Avon can't do anything sensible >without Tarrant. :) He managed perfectly well for two seasons. Can't imagine why. :-) -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:38:36 +0100 From: Robinson Paula To: "'space-city@world.std.com'" , "'Lysator List'" Subject: [B7L] crucible Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who are coming along to the Crucible on 19th, sorry I've been so long replying to Judith's question about a good meeting place - I've been away and it's taken me a while to catch up. I think the fullers pub on the corner is indeed the Partidge as someone suggested. I've never been in it, so I can't vouch for how quiet it will be. There are some nice quiet ones in Bromley North, where I live, but that is a bit far away as I am assuming that most people would go to Bromley South station, which is down the road from the Churchill Theatre. I will be in Bromley this weekend, and I'll double check the name of the pub and see if it looks OK. Bye for now, Paula ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:58:44 EDT From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] disability Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-09 03:03:15 EDT, you write: << The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really >> shown in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard >> in Wiseguy. (both legs amputated) >> What about Joe in Highlander? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:05:29 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs Message-ID: <19980909120530.1647.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Returning to a thread that was brought up a few months ago... Who was it who suggested that the difference between Avon and Blake was analogous to the difference between cats and dogs? Avon being the cat and Blake being the dog. While I can see a definite moggy side to Avon's personality, I can't think of Blake having much in common with the canine species. He's too complicated. Not even the smartest alpha wolf could lead his pack with the same sardonic brilliance that Blake could command. On the other hand, Tarrant seems like the perfect dog to Avon's cat. All his positive qualities -- loyalty, persistence, sensitivity -- and all his negative ones -- petulance, naivete, insensitivity -- are very much what you'd associate with a dog struggling to establish his place in a pack. ================================================== Another idea before I leg it: did anyone notice the sudden change that came over Blake at the end of "Redemption"? The way he ordered Avon back to his position showed a side of his personality we'd only guessed at up until that point. While there is a lot of discussion on Avon's sanity during the fourth season, I think the second season sees Blake undergoing a marked deterioration, from which he never really recovered. The Blake of Gauda Prime was a broken man. So, how about a short story, set in parallel to the second series, that shows Bran Foster's ghost appearing repeatedly to Blake -- beginning during the events of "Redemption". It would at least help to explain how Blake gradually gave way to his own fanticism, and how his grip on his own sanity became increasingly tenuous. Cheers, Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:15:01 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se, greg@geharris.co.uk Subject: RE: [B7L] disability Message-ID: <19980909121501.8372.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >What I want to know is just how beautiful Servalan would have become had she >run away with Avon? She would have disposed of him eventually. As soon as he became a liability, in fact. And she would have remained just as beautiful, and deadly, as she already was. -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:42:58 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Swearing by (or, rather, at) Avon's teeth (was Tarrant Nostra baiting) Message-ID: <19980909124258.16023.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >But do keep an open mind about Tarrant while watching the >rest of the series (you do have access to the rest of >the series, I hope...). If you can forgive Avon all his >faults, Tarrant should be a piece of cake. ;-) Agreed 100%. In addition, however, I'd like to point out that, for those of us not particularly enamoured of Avon, the latter's faults don't make Tarrant any more likeable. Other forms of persuasion are necessary in such cases. ;-) -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:59:24 +1000 From: "Taina Nieminen" To: "B7" , "Rob Clother" Subject: Re: [B7L] raining cats & dogs Message-ID: <01bddc02$6eecf430$01010101@tenzil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Who was it who suggested that the difference between Avon and Blake was >analogous to the difference between cats and dogs? Avon being the cat >and Blake being the dog. That was me, I was more wondering (I think, I can't remember anymore) whether cat people tended to be Avon fans and dog people Blake fans (being cat person and Avon fan myself, and two friends who are the same). > >While I can see a definite moggy side to Avon's personality, I can't >think of Blake having much in common with the canine species. He's too >complicated. Not even the smartest alpha wolf could lead his pack with >the same sardonic brilliance that Blake could command. > >On the other hand, Tarrant seems like the perfect dog to Avon's cat. >All his positive qualities -- loyalty, persistence, sensitivity -- and >all his negative ones -- petulance, naivete, insensitivity -- are very >much what you'd associate with a dog struggling to establish his place >in a pack. > Nice observation. Taina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:14:27 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Food for Thought Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 09 Sep, Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote: > Hi. It's Tiger M again. > I wonder what would have happened if Blake had succeeded in overthrowing > the Federation. Would things have improved or would there have been a period > of chaos and anarchy first, like the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe > are dealing with now? Overthrowing an oppressive government is one thing, but > setting up a viable new society is something much harder (anyone remember the > Articles of Confederation? If you are American, you should). I could very > easily see the Terra Nostra move into the power vacuum left by the Federation > government, just as the Russian Mafia has done. What makes the Russian Mafia > even scarier is that many of them are former KGB. > Also, all those Federation troops, spies, torturers, informers, etc. are > not going to simply cease to exist. Many of them may disappear for a while, > but they will still be lurking in the shadows. Many of the Nazi scientists > who worked on the V2 and atomic projects went to work for the American and > Soviet space and defense programs. We're still hunting down those who were > involved in the death camps fifty years later. It's a very interesting question. I suspect that Blake would have been unable to control all of t resultant problems, certainly not in the short term. To pick up just one of your points, regarding torturers. We know that Shrinker (the torturer in 'Rumours of Death') spent a period working for the rebels when they briefly gained control on Earth. > How would Blake have handled these problems? What would he do about the > torturers, etc.? Would he be a Nelson Mandela or a Boris Yeltsin? It's a real pig of problem, because the Federation is so large. Blake could not possibly control it all personally (even if he wanted to), thus he would be forced to trust other people and the possibilites of cirruption etc. immediately raise their head. Several present day countries have had to face the question of what to do about former informers, secret police etc. There don't seem to be any easy answers, though I think some have handled it better than others. How far do you follow revenge and for how long, and when is forgiveness more important? (It goes aginst the grain to let killers go free, and yet I can see times when forgiveness may be necessary if a society is not to tear itself apart before it has ever got going.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:05:47 +-200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: "BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: RE: [B7l] disability Message-Id: <01BDDC14.1A70D220@cmg71700449> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith spake thusly: > The only disabled character played by a disabled actor who is really shown > in a positive light that I can think of right now is Lifeguard in Wiseguy. > (both legs amputated) And Susan replied: > Of course, the same actor plays Joe Dawson in Highlander, and he's > a mostly positive guy. There's also Corky Thatcher in Life Goes On (Down's syndrome). Jacqueline Thijsen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:00:04 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant Nostra baiting/raining cats & dogs Message-ID: In message <19980909120530.1647.qmail@hotmail.com>, Rob Clother writes >Another idea before I leg it: did anyone notice the sudden change that >came over Blake at the end of "Redemption"? The way he ordered Avon >back to his position showed a side of his personality we'd only guessed >at up until that point. It appears earlier than that, in Breakdown, with a threat to destroy a surgeon's hands. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:24:20 +1200 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Uses of teeth? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" me: >>[leisurely, feline stretch] >>Oh, I'm finished with him now. Open slather, folks ;) Joanne: >Finished with him? Sharing him around? Now I am surprised. Not normal >behaviour, Nicola, or at least not my impression of normal where a >certain character is concerned. Shouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail >to keep everyone else back, or should I assume an unusual degree of >generosity on your part? Well, it's either that or get maimed in the process of being torn bodily off him ;) Us Leos do have our pride, you know. ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie mailto:nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz "I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV." 55 sleeps! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:57:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "G. Robbins" To: B7 Main List Subject: [B7L] Space and Power Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Today in my American Literature class we discussed a work by John Winthrop, a leader of the second wave of pilgrims to come to America in its early beginnings. What does this have to do with Blake's 7, you ask? Well, John Winthrop's great destiny for the "New World" was to create a society which was designed in a very restricted fashion. A rich family must remain rich, and a poor family must remain poor. If you were born that way, it was supposedly "God's will" and to try to change it would be against God. Our professor informed us of many chinks in Winthrop's plan, one including that he did not forsee that America was a land of great space, and the human spirit is designed to grow and expand beyond any social constrictions. I immediately thought of Blake's 7 and of how our beloved crew broke away from the totalitarian Federation...because there was so much space, and because the Liberator gave them such power to move in that space. Winthrop's "city on a hill" lasted only three years until many of the pilgrims realized that they did not need to stay within the boundaries of such a restricting society. I thought it was such an interesting parallel, and since it happened before, why couldn't it happen again? This begs a question in my mind...what will the future hold for our universe when we eventually (if ever) reach the capability to settle worlds of our own? How will we cope, and will the past repeat itself? The words that to this day still appear on the back of the US dollar bill nearby that creepy pyramid are: "annuit coeptis" (The leader/king sees) and "novus ordo seclorum" (new world order). Will our universe be lead by an all seeing dictator with hopes for a "new world order"? I now feel that maybe I should be a history major...no I don't. --Grace ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:55:46 +0100 From: Anne Lane To: "'B7'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Food for Thought Message-ID: <01BDDC99.B0629680.aplane@tesco.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:14 AM, Judith wrote: > > > How would Blake have handled these problems? What would he do about > > the > > torturers, etc.? Would he be a Nelson Mandela or a Boris Yeltsin? > > It's a real pig of problem, because the Federation is so large. Blake could > not possibly control it all personally (even if he wanted to), thus he would > be > forced to trust other people and the possibilites of cirruption etc. > immediately > raise their head. I think that Blake's intention was to dissolve the Federation, allowing individual planets and peoples their independence, so he might just leave them to deal with their own Federation employees, criminals, collaborators, etc. and reserve his attentions for Earth. Though without external support planets whose infrastructure had been deliberately weakened by the Federation's occupation would be likely to fall into civil war or, like the British tribes after the Romans left, to be overrun by another invader. Anne -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #233 **************************************