From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #53 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/53 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 53 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] New Mailing List Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Re: [B7L] shots fired Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Re: [B7L] Re: Shots Fired [B7L] shots fired [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? [B7L] Shots Fired [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering Re: [B7L] Shots Fired Re: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Re: [B7L] New Mailing List [B7L] Closures&assorted ranting. Re: [B7L] New Mailing List Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Re: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? Re: [B7L] Palindromes Re: [B7L] Closures&assorted ranting. [B7L] Re: Beautiful suffering Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:07:51 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New Mailing List Message-ID: <4.160e9f1.25e8ab97@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/22/2000 8:33:13 PM Central Standard Time, kat@welkin.apana.org.au writes: > But it would be a good thing if someone actually told them about this > Lyst - Michael? (Not Freedom City, I gather they don't like to be > advertised?) This is correct. Thanks, Kathryn. I'd really prefer that FC wasn't publicly advertised outside Lysator and the pointers on Calle's and Judith's websites. :-) I did notice that many of the people on the new list were new to B7 fandom, and I think it's a good idea to have a separate list with spoilers where newbies could hang out. However, I would also like to see an anser to Pat P.'s question. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:22:20 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <20000225.210117.-183443.1.Rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:13:23 -0000 "Neil Faulkner" writes: > Is it just me, or is there wider cause for concern about anyone who > could > regard any form of suffering as 'beautiful'? > > :) > > Neil > Seems to me someone said that, if we could not find the beauty within suffering, it could not be born. No, wait, that wasn't suffering, that was Pittsburg. Something to do with the comment that living there one month would be justifiable grounds for suicide. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:24:43 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] shots fired Message-ID: <20000225.210117.-183443.2.Rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:18:02 -0000 "Neil Faulkner" writes: > Pat P wrote: > > OK, the first shot was a bit higher in pitch than the subsequent > volley. > > But only the single 'spacey ray gun' sounding shot in the middle > sounded > > vastly different to me. > > But who [or what] fired that first shot? > > And whose weapon lobbed that odd ray gun blast? > > IIRC, some of the troopers standing around Avon at the end were not > armed > with standard Federation sidearms. Not that all Federation sidearms > sounded > alike anyway. > Actually, those weren't shots. It was really the sound of all the Federation sidearms jamming and the following, less than tasteful observations from the users of said firearms being bleeped out. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:33:10 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <20000225.210117.-183443.3.Rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:27:22 EST VulcanXYZ@aol.com writes: > Neil's question is a good one. Why do we enjoy watching Avon suffer? > > Perhaps because it makes him look nice and vulnerable?!! > > Gail > Reasons we enjoy Avon's Beautiful Suffering 1) Because it makes it so easy to imagine putting arms around him and saying "There, there," etc. 2) Women bond over sharing troubles. Ergo, this gives us the feeling we've bonded with him. 3) Less kindly, it's easier to forgive Avon his little, insignificant, almost unnoticeable shortcomings if he Pays Terribly for them. 4) Even less kindly, there are those who feel he deserves some of it. 5) Because he does it so well. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:01:01 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Shots Fired Message-ID: <20000225.210117.-183443.4.Rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:20:18 -0800 Susie Wright writes: > Regarding mysterious shots at the end of "Blake," put Oliver Stone on > the case and he'll > tell you about the two men on the hill.... > > (I'm being a bit silly.... I was surrounded by 4 year olds today at > my daughter's > preschool.... run away run away run away) > > Susie Being in an equally silly mood (maybe worse) - Oliver Stone was really hired by Servalan to cover up how a slightly unbalanced Federation thug by the name of Travis (believed killed but actually last seen falling down a time tunnel) landed in 20th century Russia where he got a high quality glass eye and replaced an American with initials LHO (under the mistaken impression that all nifty groups with secret agendas had to have three initials in that century). He was a bit mentally unbalanced by the trip and consequently went off to find the most Blake like person he could and get rid of them. He finally wound up in Dallas on a warm day. But, just as he was about to shoot, Avon really needed a plot device to save his skin. A temporal vortex opened on a grassy knoll. Federation gunfire hit Travis (or Ludello Heimerdinger Obermeier XXIII, as he was known) just as he was firing, causing him to completely miss the curly haired flower child who would later record something that got into the top 547, that well known hit, "Funky Haircuts and Liberator Blues," which was later revived and became the moral compass of anti-confomists everywhere in Blake's time (part of Avon's difficulties with Jenna has to do with her playing the CD she smuggled out with her on the London 40,000 times a day and then telling him he needs a perm). Fortunately for Servalan's PR, this complete debacle (from a totalitarian government point of view) was kept out of contemporary press reports due to some guy on another floor of the same building aiming at someone else (what with the initials, it was easy to convince reporters Ludello Heimerdinger Obermeier was just a misprint for the more easily spelled name without number attachments). However, all of this was about to be made public in a dark, gritty, Disney movie, when Servalan went back in time, hired Oliver as a front man, took over production (rumors about a certain mouse being dosed with a certain mind control drug have never been confirmed), and cut the truth out of the movie. The ugly truth behind how an unknown in Hollywood managed this is best left unrevealed. Oh, stories may circulate concerning her appearance in a Bob Hope movie, and, yes, there is a reason Kermit the Frog didn't show his legs in public till after years of reconstructive surgery (and, yes, there's a connection between all this and why he's never had the nerve to date another overdressed female [porcine] who, like Servalan, has a strong personality and a taste for taking out anyone who gets in her way [the connection between Miss Piggy's origin's and Dr. Bunsen Honeydew (late of the Clonemasters), who recognized Kermit's need for a dedicated bodyguard, is also best hushed up]), but the full, hideous tale really is better off never being told. But never fear. The original script was said to have been safely delivered to an FBI agent named Mulder .... Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:37:26 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] shots fired Message-ID: <38B75886.65D734AE@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew wrote: >There is an interview with Mary Ridge (in one of the B7 magazines, I >believe) where she explains who is firing each of the gunshots over the >credits. >I could dig it up if you like oh yes, please do. PatP P.S. Ask her if the crew weren't *really* dying in agony because someone was reading Vogon poetry over the com system. -- "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:43:35 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <38B759F7.EECC0380@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: >Is it just me, or is there wider cause for concern about anyone who could >regard any form of suffering as 'beautiful'? The Holy Roman Church long 'beautified' potential Saints for suffering - not all of them beautifully. Tho that St. Augustine (?) guy shot full of arrows in the painting is trying. Hey! That's how Dayna deserved to go: shot full of arrows. She'd have liked that, because "The ancient weapons require more skill." How would the others have preferred to die, I wonder? Vila, naturally, would want to be drowned in a big vat of soma. Come on all you sick puppies, pitch in on this one. Penny, are you listening? PatP -- "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:45:28 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Shots Fired Message-ID: <38B75A68.4BB40E52@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susie wrote: >Regarding mysterious shots at the end of "Blake," put Oliver Stone on the case and he'll >tell you about the two men on the hill.... You totally lost me on this reference. >(I'm being a bit silly.... I was surrounded by 4 year olds today at my daughter's >preschool.... run away run away run away) I see you surrounded by hordes of squeeking, shrieking Decimas... A fate *worse* than four year olds! PatP -- "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:53:45 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering Message-ID: <38B75C59.CABCDC28@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail wrote: >Neil's question is a good one. Why do we enjoy watching Avon suffer? >Perhaps because it makes him look nice and vulnerable?!! Avon is so superior in so many ways: smart, handsome, in control - he seems totally out of reach of we mere mortals. Taking him down a notch or three tends to put him more within reach. Plus, the man needs to be beaten to within an inch of his life before he will deign to show a wisp of emotion. I recall a fanfic tale (sorry, haven't a clue to title or author) where the whole crew had been given a drug that induced excruciating pain - during the escape from their post GP prison, we are let to think they all took the antidote (which might have had unknown side effects). At end, Avon tells Soolin he didn't take the antidote, because he was watching to see what it would do to her. Chilling, but *so* Avon! He is *so* in control, that he would endure the acid burn pain rather than risk a slip in his surly competent demeanor. When it comes to female characters suffering, I don't recall much of this in fanfic. Except for Servalan, perhaps, who deserves whatever punishment she gets. (Preferably at the hands of Avon, who makes her suffer beautifully, as he did when she hung in chains in the cellar beneath her new palace) [be still my beating heart] Perverted PatP -- "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:58:33 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Shots Fired Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/25/2000 10:49:51 PM Central Standard Time, patpatera@netzero.net writes: > Susie wrote: > >Regarding mysterious shots at the end of "Blake," put Oliver Stone on the > case and he'll > >tell you about the two men on the hill.... > > You totally lost me on this reference. Oliver Stone's movie JFK. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:17:56 -0000 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <000801bf8040$671bca40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The Holy Roman Church long 'beautified' potential Saints for suffering - >not all of them beautifully. Tho that St. Augustine (?) guy shot full of >arrows in the painting is trying. St Sebastian I think. Big gay icon; didn't Derek Jarman do a film about him, with the dialogue all in Latin (!) Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:38:08 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <20000226113808.36537.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Neil asked: Well, I agree whole-heartedly. It's shocking and appalling and if it weren't for the the awkward fact that I'm one of the chief offenders… I don't actually *know* why I like seeing him getting dumped on so thoroughly (though please note, I insist on at least a little comfort mixed in with the hurt…:-)) and I was rather startled when I found out I liked it. It's only Beautiful, for some reason, when it's Avon Suffering - Blake gets mentally tortured rather nicely, and it's fun to watch Vila in fear and trembling (he does it creatively) but I don't like seeing him actually hurt. Does it come from the same (if milder) impulse that makes any fictional plot more appealing if "it will drive Avon absolutely up the wall?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:44:10 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] New Mailing List Message-ID: <20000226154410.A22956@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 05:37:51PM -0500, Meredith Dixon wrote: > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:47:12 +1100, Kathryn wrote: > >Judging by the archives of that list, Michael was the one who actually > >started it. On the 21st of February, no less. So he's definitely the > >one to answer that question. > > The B7 mailing list I know of (but do not belong to) on Onelist > has been around since the summer of 1998 and was started by > someone named Kristin. I assumed, without looking too closely at > the listname, that was the one Michael meant. I'm glad you > actually took time to check his list's archives on Onelist. Well, maybe it *was* the same list, and got revived or something. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:29:05 +0200 (EET) From: Kai V Karmanheimo To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Closures&assorted ranting. Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello everyone I've been meaning to write this for a week or so now, but other responsibilities have kept me from doing so. I recently watched the last few Blake's 7 episodes I had not yet seen, this almost eleven years after I saw my first episode. This left me with a feeling of something like closure, for want of a better word, so excuse me for ranting on this a bit, though still with some oblique ties at recent discussions about certain episodes and why people like what. Having now seen all the 52 episodes, I can finally have a proper perspective on the series as a whole, but most of all it's been nice to see that though there was a ten-year gap between the first and second phases of my watching those episodes, the series holds some lasting appeal and relevance to me. The first phase episodes still appeal to me after who knows how many screenings, while the best of the second phase episodes stand quite well enough on their own. So it has not been me "finishing what I set out to do", nor has it been - perish the thought! - a nostalgia trip, of which I'm glad. There is still some difference between the way I react to different episodes. Some of the "first phase" episodes have not stood the friction of repeated watching all that well, others have persevered, some even improved (I can remember not liking "Bounty" much the first time I saw it, but now it seems much more solid an episode than some of those which I was initially more taken with; it may swing around again). With the "second phase" it's a bit different: they have a kind of "newness" to them, the promise of nooks and crannies yet unexplored, though that doesn't necessarily translate into better quality. Just another a contributing factor to the fluidity of appreciating different episodes. What's great today is not always great tomorrow. Obviously I did not see all the episodes in their intended order and having a healthy appetite for research I knew a lot of plot twists before actually witnessing them on screen. I knew Gan had no more than ten minutes of screen time left to live when he dashed through the security zone in "Pressure Point". I started the third season knowing that Blake wouldn't be there. I watched "Terminal" knowing it would be the last time I saw Zen and Cally. Yet I can't say that knowing these things made watching those episodes any less powerful an experience. Perhaps it could have kicked the old kickometer up another notch if I hadn't known, but in most cases knowing was only a minor part of enjoying the episode; seeing how they pull it all off was the motherlode. Okay, it may be that I don't appreciate "The Way Back" as much as the general opinion seems to do partly because it wasn't my entry point into the series (when I did see it, Blake's exile from Earth was already given information, and the way it all played out fell short of expectations), but despite Chris Boucher's surprisingly successful attempts to give the series narrative and psychological continuity, I feel Blake's 7 can be fully enjoyed even out-of-sequence. And having talked about the beginning of the series, I must throw in a word about its end. The end of "Blake" is all the more effective because it is shockingly final, yet presents it all so ambiguously as to leave the door open for a fifth season which never came. The question that has been debated is whether it was Servalan there at the end that Avon was aiming at. With no evidence to suggest she was there nor to conclusively rule out her presence, I guess it's a question of what you want to believe. For my own part I'd like to think she wasn't anywhere near Gauda Prime and had nothing to do with what happened there. From a narrative point of view it would of course be neater to tie up that loose end within the discourse, but I prefer the irony of the crew eluding all of Servalan's most meticulous plans only to meet their end as random casualties of a Federation raid. It's much more appealing to think that when bad things happen to you it's not always because there's someone out to get you and destroy your life; bad things can happen just because you were in a wrong place at a wrong time, and because at that wrong time you made a wrong move out of ignorance and out of fear. And why does Avon raise the gun and smile? The way I see it, the man has lost just about everything during the last twenty-four hours; he's just realised that he's made perhaps the biggest mistake in his life by killing Blake. Standing there surrounded by troopers, I think he realises the inevitability of his own death. It will either take place later with the ultimate humiliation of the Federation dictating the moment and the method of his death, or it will take place right here and now, on his own volition and at his chosen moment. Raising the gun is a symbol of defiance (taking Blake's place as the one defying the Federation), but it's also meant to provoke the troopers. Avon doesn't aim the gun directly at any of the guards, nor does he even focus his gaze on anything specific. He doesn't have to. When he fires the gun, the troopers will be jarred into action and they will fire back. The smile - the relief of knowing that this is the end? Reflection on the irony of his comment about the connection between his death and Blake's (or perhaps it should be "Well, it's another fine mess you've got me into!")? The absurdity of bluffing the troopers with an empty gun? Or just the ultimate irony of standing there alone against the Federation, exactly where he never wanted to be, the empty heroism thrust upon him by Blake's death, Blake still getting the last word even in death? Just a suspended moment before he pulls the trigger and starts the process of his death. "And the dead man laughed at his persecutors..." All right, very biased, but as closure was the notion I began with, I like to see this as the perfect closure to this story (until they get the TV movie or whatever off the ground, and it's mental revision time again). And to finally close this post , I'll just say that in one respect my seeing the last of the episodes didn't do what I expected it would: It didn't get Blake's 7 out of my system. So I guess you'll still be hearing from me now and then . Kai ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:23:40 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: Subject: Re: [B7L] New Mailing List Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000226112244.00de5180@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Kathryn Andersen wrote: >Well, maybe it *was* the same list, and got revived or something. No, he really has started *another* one on Onelist; they're both out there. Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.... - Lisa -- _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ From Eroica With Love: http://eroica.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:08:23 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: rilliara@juno.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <14.13c4d1a.25e97ea7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, I believe it's reason number 5 Trish ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:10:30 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: patpatera@netzero.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avon absorbed into the galaxy's largest computer? Trish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:27:01 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Palindromes Message-ID: <001201bf80ac$6a98eb00$9554063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> > the palindromic namesakes ....Avon ....and Nova >The Kerr Avon Tribute Page > http://homepages.tesco.net/~N.Faulkner/blakes7/avontrib.htm ) will tell you >that since 'Nova' is 'Avon' spelt backwards, and Nova died at the beginning, >we can be sure that Avon didn't die at the end. > >Surely it's not a true palindrome, since proper ones read the same backwards >and forwards? > >Neil So Avon should have died in Warlord, not Blake ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:08:40 -0000 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Closures&assorted ranting. Message-ID: <006d01bf80ae$a4b2a860$9554063e@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice to hear from you again Kai, always thought provoking. Glad you enjoyed your closure, but of course, you could now try and see them all in the correct order as well ...... And I'm with you on Blake. The irony. But I do think it would be nice if Servalan, who was off plotting another military coup, knew about what was going on at the very last minute, and her victory was forever tainted by missing the end of her greatest foe ( the Federation of course, posing absolutely no problem at all). Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:05:10 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Beautiful suffering Message-ID: <38B85C26.5D9A@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Is it just me, or is there wider cause for concern about anyone who could > regard any form of suffering as 'beautiful'? You are not alone, Neil. I have, however, refrained from enquiring too closely, as I am just an innocent little Catholic boy and the answers would make me go all pink. Iain I take it you boys have never been to a tragedy in a theater, particularily of the operatic variety? What about scultures such as the "Pieta"? A great deal of art is built on human suffering, glorified by the juxtaposition of the small scale of humanity struggling against a large and often hostile universe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:53:00 -0000 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re [B7L]: 'Beautiful' suffering? Message-ID: <005901bf8143$2caeac20$5d8abc3e@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Neil Faulkner" > Is it just me, or is there wider cause for concern about anyone > who could regard any form of suffering as 'beautiful'? Well maybe I am just a simple soul but I always thought it best expressed as "suffering beautifully". Julie -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #53 *************************************